|
Post by Two Tales on Feb 4, 2005 17:07:18 GMT 12.75
I would have three, no make it four... fit, form, function and of course...durable..I like to get by with the least expense as I can but would rather spend $50 once than $10 10 times..or more..another comes to mind as I type this is ease of use...kind of loss if you need a masters in engineering to operate it...I saw some place that you don't have a mandlein..well I do, but it don't get used much...a lot less complicated to use the Chen than it is just to set it up and quicker also...I got a buddy that cooks with me often that just loves the thing...it might just become a gift soon...
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 5, 2005 3:24:23 GMT 12.75
Really good points there Two Tales! If you can't make it do it's job or if maybe it is poorly designed in the first place it becomes pretty much worthless. There seem to be more culinary related "gadgets" than there are fancy fishing lures! ;D They might make a very nice collection; but sometimes their useability is suspect. With regard to pric, I think the key is universal; buy the very best that you can afford that meet your performznce requirements!
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 8, 2005 6:10:03 GMT 12.75
Come on you guys. We are talking the basics of determining quality here. So far we have form, fit, function, durability and price mentioned as the basis used for choosing kitchen gear. Earlier Ken mentioned "multi-tasking" which is a word we have all heard from Alton Brown. Let's hear your opinions as well!
|
|
|
Post by OLKoot on Feb 8, 2005 12:49:30 GMT 12.75
I'm really not familiar with the term multi-tasking, but I do know ,to do the job right, you have to use the best you can afford.....for example, I wouldnt buy one of those battery powered items because they dont produce enough tork to do the job, and they have no longevity in their use....As I said before, I bought a Wolgang Puk item, and after the waranttee expired,my wife accidently burned out the motor.....The Puk organization sent me the motorized base, for only $23 and shipping and handling....I thought that was great and I thought they had enough sense to stand behind the product they sold...Heck, I even brought an old beat up hammer back to Sears because it was Craftsman and was guaranteed for life.....I got a new hammer......
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 8, 2005 17:31:04 GMT 12.75
"Quality", the term means basically; "Fitness for Use." How well the product meets the demand established by the customer. It is a characteristic determined and defined by the user. And get this, it has absolutely nothing to do with price! A higher price does not mean higher quality; never has, never will. I grant you the terms do have a significant correlation but it is all a matter of faith. To determine "quality" you must first define the specifics. My new knife must not break when I cut chicken or slice bologna. It must not stick when I slice cheese. It must be sharp enough to cut bread and tomatoes without tearing or crushing. It must be dishwasher safe. See, specific definitions of the quality characteristics. Your definition might even be "It must be a Wolfgang Puk product!" ;D As long as you have thought through your particular definition process. Excellent Steven!! ;D Anybody got definitions lfor skillet, fry pan and sautee pan yet? How about a description of how to use the Japanese Chef's knife? Ken can you help us out here?
|
|
|
Post by Two Tales on Feb 8, 2005 23:11:43 GMT 12.75
Paws,
The Japanese knives..now that's a big order..talk about you specific use tools..there are no less than 10 that I can think of off the top of my head...you have one for sushi, one for veggies, one for chicken, actually a couple for use in cutting up chicken..while most of these resemble the standard european chef's knives there are slight variences..the Chinese Chef's knife on the other hand resembles a clever in shape only..but talk about the multi functional tool..it slices, it dices, it chops, it flatens and tenderizes...depending on what you intend to do..ito how you hold it and make it work...the grip generally never changes for slicing or chopping that sort of thing... depending on what slice you make cuting things into thin stips leading edge down drawn through the product, slicing, say a slab off a roast to make a steak, you would start with the leading edge and push down and forward...ending with the heel of the blade at the bottom lead of the roast...to hold the knife for these operations with the index finger and thumb on either side of the blade with the handle resting in the palm and other fingers...tenderize using the back of the blade, flaten (as in making scalopini) use the side...I guess the best way to discribe the grip is liken to holding a hammer...I have seen these knives used to chop and mix a simple meat salad or spread using no other utensel...thing is you need two knives...you put eveything (ingrediants) in a pile on the cutting board and start to chop..it's fun to watch but a bitch to master without sending the stuff all over your kitchen ;D
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 9, 2005 1:51:30 GMT 12.75
Hey, not too shabby!! As with everything else "a tool that cann not be mastered is a tool that is useless!" No sense in haveing a piece of geararound that you are not comfortble with or can not use effectively! The good news of course is that nobody was ever born an expert, except of course my wife and my boss, and everyone can become an expert given sufficient practice. Learn to use your tools by following the instructions jprovided with them and the iinstructions of those who have already mastered them. Become proficient with them by first learning the proper technique very slowly and then by increasing your speed as you increase your confidence and skill. This is how the novice becomes the master. Why is this important to cooking or preparing food? Meeting schedules, deadlines, meal times, and producing a consistent product of expected quality is what cooks do. Chefs do it mjuch more often and much more quickly. Why? Because they have had more practice! Before we close our discussion of cutlery and move on to the selection of pots and pans let me ask if there are any questions, comments or discussions still remaining that need to be addressed.
|
|
|
Post by kenh on Feb 10, 2005 15:39:18 GMT 12.75
The problem with trying to define skillet vs frying pan vs sauté pan vs omelet pan is that different manufacturers uses the same names for pans of different shapes. That's what we really need to look at, the shapes and purposes.
Pot - a cooking vessel at least as tall as it is wide.
Pan - a cooking vessel wider than it is tall.
Frying Pan/Skillet #1 - Shallow and tall pans with sloping sides and a rounded junction of side and bottom, so steam doesn't collect in the pan. Usually without a lid, but with a long handle, with or without a second loop handle, opposite. Used for sweating, frying, sautéing, omelets & fritattas. Also used for making sauces (called a Saucier). Comes in 8", 10", 12", and 14" diameter.
Frying Pan/Skillet #2 - Shallow and tall pans with straight sides and a sharp angled junction between bottom and side. Usually with a lid. With deep sides, often called a "Chicken Frying Pan". Used for frying (both pan frying and semi-deep frying) meats and vegetables, and making pan breads, but not for cooking eggs. Usually has one long handle, but may also have a second loop handle, opposite. Comes in 8", 10", 12", and 14" diameter.
Dutch Oven/Chili Pot - a tall (3" - 8") , heavy vessel with a lid, used for both stove top and oven cooking and deep frying. usually features double loop handles or bail handle. Usually specified by capacity (3 qt., 5 qt., 8 qt.) rather than diameter.
Stock Pot - a large capacity lidded pot with double handles used for long, slow simmering of stocks, broths, soups, etc. Specified by capacity (12 qt., 20 qt., 30 qt.)
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 11, 2005 3:55:50 GMT 12.75
Thank you Ken! ;D Where did you derive your definitions? While you are in the neighborhood, would you also please discuss the various terms used for cutting foods? I'll come back to skillets and fry pans a little later as well!
|
|
|
Post by kenh on Feb 11, 2005 8:53:01 GMT 12.75
Got most of my defs from kitchen dictionaries and looking at what's out there (I work p-t- for Lines N Things kitchenwares dept).
Being a Cut-up:
Chop - as with an ax or cleaver, a smashing blow with a cutting edge.
Slice - drawing or pushing a blade linearly downward through meat or veg.
French Rock - a kind of "papercutter chop" where the point of the knife stays relatively stationary while the handle end rises and falls. The flat of the blade rests against the knuckles of the non-knife hand. The fingers of the non-knife hand (tucked under) feed the food into the knife, the knife does not move into the food.
Dice - to cut things into squares or cubes. A "large dice" is about 1/2" square, a regular dice about 1/4", "fine" dice about 1/8". "Cubed" meat is cut 3/4" to 1".
Mince - to chop things finer than a fine dice but necessarily as prettily.
Julienne - a.k.a. "matchstick". To cut vegetables into approximately matchstick sized and shaped pieces (1"- 2" long x 3/16" - 1/8" thick).
Chiffonade - a kind of julienne cut applied to a rolled or bunched clump of fresh herb leaves, producing fine strings of leaf matter.
Shred - to pull cooked meat apart along the grain; to cut leafy vegetables (cabbage, lettuce) into "large julienne" strips 1"- 6" long x 1/8" - 1/4" wide).
Finger - to cut into "french fry" shaped rectangular pieces.
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 11, 2005 11:29:30 GMT 12.75
Thanks Ken; exactly what I was looking for! I'm going to copy this and put it on the cutlery thread as well. ;D You Ohio Camp Cooks will want to be sure to look in on the featured recipes this Saturday morning because there will be some special things thre for you to "test" your culinary skills we have been discussing here. Tell your friends!
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 11, 2005 14:08:55 GMT 12.75
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. skillet SYLLABICATION: skil·let PRONUNCIATION: sklt NOUN: 1. See frying pan. See Regional Notes at andiron, frying pan. 2. Chiefly British A long-handled stewing pan or saucepan sometimes having legs. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English skelet, from Old French escuelete, diminutive of escuele, plate, from Latin scutella, diminutive of scutra, platter. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. frying pan SYLLABICATION: fry·ing pan PRONUNCIATION: frng NOUN: A shallow, long-handled pan used for frying food. Also called skillet, Regional spider. also called regionally Regional fry pan. REGIONAL NOTE: The terms frying pan and skillet are now virtually interchangeable, but there was a time when they were so regional as to be distinct dialect markers. Frying pan and the shortened version fry pan were once New England terms; frying pan is now in general use, as is the less common fry pan, now heard in the Atlantic states, the South, and the West, as well as New England. Skillet seems to have been confined to the Midland section of the country, including the Upper South. Its use is still concentrated there, but it is no longer used in that area alone, probably because of the national marketing of skillet dinner mixes. The term spider, originally denoting a type of frying pan that had long legs to hold it up over the coals, spread from New England westward to the Upper Northern states and down the coast to the South Atlantic states. It is still well known in both these regions, although it is now considered old-fashioned. See Note at andiron. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. spider SYLLABICATION: spi·der PRONUNCIATION: spdr NOUN: 1. Any of numerous arachnids of the order Araneae, having a body divided into a cephalothorax bearing eight legs, two poison fangs, and two feelers and an unsegmented abdomen bearing several spinnerets that produce the silk used to make nests, cocoons, or webs for trapping insects. 2. One that resembles a spider, as in appearance, character, or movement. 3. New England, Upper Northern, & South Atlantic U.S. See frying pan. See Regional Note at frying pan. 4. A trivet. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English spither, from Old English spthra. See (s)pen- in Appendix I. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. andiron SYLLABICATION: and·i·ron PRONUNCIATION: ndrn NOUN: One of a pair of metal supports used for holding up logs in a fireplace. Also called dog, Regional firedog. also called regionally Regional dog iron. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English aundiren, alteration (influenced by Middle English iren, iron) of Old French andier, of Celtic origin. REGIONAL NOTE: A number of words that formerly were limited to one region of the U.S. are now used throughout the country. Andiron was once Northern, contrasting with Southern dog iron and fire dog. The Southern terms remain limited to that region, but andiron is now everywhere. Other formerly Northern words that have become national include faucet, contrasting with Southern spigot; frying pan, contrasting with Midland and Upper Southern skillet; and freestone peach, contrasting with clearseed and open peach in parts of the South. Southern words that are now used nationwide include feisty and gutters. See Note at frying pan. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Note that the differences appear to be bsed on geography; however during the Civil War the Table of Authorization and Allowances included both Skillets and Frying Pans for Garrison Kitchens at the Company level or higher. Since the authorization quantity for skillets was greater than frying pans I assume that there was a difference in definition at that time. I have discovered that virtually every vessel referred to as a skillet is indeed a spider with legs which may have been a developed regional coloquialism as well since I can find no specific TOE authorization for a spider! (Isn't this fun?)
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 16, 2005 20:52:42 GMT 12.75
So did anyone get a chance to work out on the Pancit Canton recipe? If so tell us about it!
|
|
|
Post by Two Tales on Feb 17, 2005 1:03:08 GMT 12.75
I haven't made it in a while, but that is nearly the exact set of ingrediants that I use..I don't care for fermented fish sauce so I use the same amount of oyster sauce (if it's the same consitancy) wife kinda turns her nose up at the whole mess while cooking but sure likes the finished product...so I send her on a errend when I want to make it... ;D
On another note, spiders....there used to be a set of those around the house when I was a kid, a set being several of different sizes...a couple were tall, 8-10 inches high and the rest were about 2-3 inches...If I remember correctly they fit some of the Iron that we had...those being the ones that had a down-ward lip on the bottom of the pan...I don't know if this was common in these pans (skillets, fry pans etc) or not or if these were designed to be used with the spiders....
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 17, 2005 7:36:56 GMT 12.75
From what I gather TT virtually all of the original spiders were made with 7 or 8 inch legs. For whatever reason the majority of them have had their legs reduced to short legs or mere nubs. Probably has to do with transition from Hearth cooking to outdoor cooking where they needed to be transported via wagon, back pack, or saddle bag and the long legs were too bulky to handle. Your downward lip sounds like some kind of a fire ring.
|
|
|
Post by OLKoot on Feb 17, 2005 15:33:33 GMT 12.75
I've tasted something similar along time ago,cant remember when though...but I would have kicked it up a bit with some ginger and five spice powder.....
|
|
|
Post by Two Tales on Feb 17, 2005 17:13:59 GMT 12.75
Steve, I had it once made with ginger but the lady that made it over did the ginger and that was all you could taste..might try it with a small amount the next time I put it together...
Paws, the lip as I understand it was to prevent the pan from slipping off the ring...and come to think about it the short legs did look as though they had been cut off...
|
|
|
Post by OLKoot on Feb 17, 2005 18:40:41 GMT 12.75
TT....dont forget the 5 spice powder.....I'm reverting back to my Szechuan, and Korean food eating days.....gotta get some heat in the mix....
|
|
|
Post by Paws on Feb 18, 2005 7:29:29 GMT 12.75
Re Pancit Canton: Obviously this is a Cantonese dish; meaning Noodles of Canton. It is not as spicey hot as Schejuan dishes. I use a little extra garlic and lime juice in mine. I like an almost sour expression when I first bite into it. If you want to heat it up use the New Mexico red peppers Ken was talking about. Just sautee these a bit in olive oil, say three or four of them whole, then drop them into pot with the rest of the stuff.
Re Spiders: Hey man you aren't talking about pans with legs are you? You are talking about a contraption like one of the guys was looking for. A ring with legs on it right? And the pans are flat or rounded bottoms with a lip that wraps over the edge of the ring, right? Hey man you want to get rid of that junk?? Now I don't have much room here but for a buddy I'll reluctantly take it off your hands and keep it somewhere around here dry and clean. What do ya say?? Hmmmm, Come on man let me do you a favor! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Two Tales on Feb 18, 2005 17:30:39 GMT 12.75
You know about those rings....Next time I make it back to the Big Buckeye I'll have a look see...that is if the turd of a knuckel headed brother of mine didn't haul them off to the scrap yard for a dollar or two..I wouldn't put it past him for a moment..he carted off a 1942 Willis "jeep" engine that was still in the crate...and an antique Mercury outboard motor that ran like a top...the boy must have been adopted...
Oh, and yes that is what they were..the rings and pans,etc with the lip that sort of wrapped over the edge of the rings...family wont part with the pans but if the rings are there I might could use some help in finding a couple of them a new home...wont promise nothing though at present...
As far as spicing up the pancit..try "Thi Chili Oil" a few drops of that will most assuredly bring some expresions the following day ;D
|
|