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Post by Toby Benoit on Dec 9, 2008 13:30:11 GMT 12.75
No big deal with migration, PRAM. I just want it done LEGAllY! It's too damn easy for someone to get here lawfully, for them to pour across the boarder illegally. Then whe they're here illegally, it's absurd for them to expect the same rights as citizens and taxpayers!
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Post by othmar on Dec 9, 2008 18:18:37 GMT 12.75
Illegal immigration is a problem faced by many so called rich nations, and all want them out. But if we kick them all out WHO is going to wipe the behinds of old all ill folks in old peoples homes and hospitals. WHO is going to clean all the dishes, washrooms and laundry in hotels, restaurants, the White House and other government buildings. WHO is going do all the other filthy jobs we the "citizens" are apparently to fine to do. Are we willing to put up with some of the work conditions and hours these people are willing, often forced, to put up with? There is some compelling statistics that suggests that our oh so treasured way of life, whatever that phrase means, would totally collapse over night if all the illegal immigrants would have to leave. It's always easy to point fingers, blame others and call them derogatory racists names but if it where not for our societies "we're to good for that job" attitude, illegal aliens would not come here because there where no jobs here for them. Just some food for thought.
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Post by othmar on Dec 9, 2008 18:34:26 GMT 12.75
It's too damn easy for someone to get here lawfully, Toby I can assure you, after traveling around the world and having gone through many immigration processes, America is the most difficult country to legally immigrate and the most expensive. It's also the most intrusive and humiliating immigration system. Compared to that, immigrating to China and Russia under communist rule seemed like a walk in the park.
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Post by Mars on Dec 10, 2008 2:04:28 GMT 12.75
If not for our attitude we would still be on horseback working on farms. Demeaning, hard labor and not wanting to do it is what drove the inventions of this country and why no really useful labor devices are being invented now since it is solved by using cheap illegal labor instead of inventing an easier way.
The jobs are here because employers have a choice to hire a citizen at $15. an hour or an illegal at $2. an hour for the same job. It's not that a citizen won't do certain jobs but more he/she won't do it for slave labor pay. I doubt you could come up with one single job an American will not do or hasn't done and normaly better then anybody else.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Dec 10, 2008 15:20:31 GMT 12.75
Sure it's tough to do it legally, Othmar. It ought to be, but I know too many good folks here from Europe and Mexico, and a few from Haiti and a bunch from Cuba. All decent, mostly Christian, and hard working folks. Any more like them? Bring 'em on! Any that want to sneak in and begin citizenship as a felon? Stay home!!!
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Post by Paws on Dec 11, 2008 3:37:40 GMT 12.75
It is going to get so that evrybody crossing is going to be required to have a passport. Talk about difficult! I was down around El Paso way for a time when Le Migre decided to pick up the wife, Philipina, questioned her for a bit and asked for her credentials. She had her green card OK. That was near thirty years ago. I'm for immigration, migration, emmigration, integration, and instegation cause I think things ought to always be moving. But, I'll be damned if it is right for anybody to set themselves up in luxury at taxpayer expense. Christ I know those in my own family who bust their buns to make a living but can't afford to see a doctor but get taxed so an illegal can. That pisses me off.
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Post by princessrunamuck on Dec 11, 2008 11:08:51 GMT 12.75
For those that want to really take the TIME to not only READ but LISTEN.Illegal immigration may be prompted by the desire to escape civil war or repression in the country of origin. Non-economic push factors include persecution (religious and otherwise), frequent abuse, bullying, oppression, and genocide, and risks to civilians during war. Political motives traditionally motivate refugee flows - to escape dictatorship for instance.After decades of armed conflict, roughly one of every 10 Colombians now lives abroad. For example, figures from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security indicate that Colombia is the fourth-leading source country of unauthorized immigration to the United States. (NOTE: LETS THINK ABOUT HOW THE US DEPT GOT HERE "TO NORTH AMERICA"!) According to its estimates, the number of unauthorized Colombian residents in the United States almost tripled from 51,000 in 1990 to 141,000 in 2000. SOOOO ... what do we take from this information???
How about THIS..?English colonies sprang up all along the Atlantic coast, from Maine in the north to Georgia in the south. Swedish and Dutch colonies took shape in and around what is now New York. As more and more people arrived in the New World, more and more disputes arose over territory. Many wars were fought in the 1600s and 1700s. Soon, the two countries with the largest presence were England and France. The two nations fought for control of North America in what Americans call the French and Indian War (1754-1763). England won the war and got control of Canada, as well as keeping control of all the English colonies. NOW WHO EXACTLY CREATED THIS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AGAIN? War and violence While epidemic disease was by far the leading cause of the population decline of the American indigenous peoples after 1492, there were other contributing factors, all of them related to European contact and colonization. One of these factors was warfare. According to demographer Russell Thornton, although many lives were lost in wars over the centuries, and war sometimes contributed to the near extinction of certain tribes, warfare and death by other violent means was a comparatively minor cause of overall native population decline Need to rethink all the jokes about Illegal Immigration!
England and France did NOT seem to PAY attention to "HOW TO BE HUMAN" when they GOT to NORTH AMERICA did they? But SO many expect others "Illegal or NOT" to OBEY the "US LAWS"
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Post by Jerry on Dec 11, 2008 11:48:15 GMT 12.75
No disrespect, but just because there were injustices in the past, does not excuse breaking the law today. I am Native American and my people have been mistreated probably more so than any other. However, I have worked my entire life and still believe that the government owes me NOTHING. On my fathers side, the family is originally from France. Several generations ago, they immigrated to this nation LEGALLY.
When we talk about immigration, I think almost all of us who contribute to this site are concerned about the laws that have come into being since the American Revolution. America is a nation of immigrants, we all understand that. However, when our nation is bankrupt and the government is supporting medical care and social security benefits for those who are here illegally, it gives each of cause for concern and indignation. I think we should all remember, illegal immigrants have broken our laws. This is the group that upsets us. Specifically, when someone in government leadership proposes medical care and social security and other benefits.
I have paid into social security since I reached working age. What have the illegal immigrants contributed? They do not even pay taxes, because they cannot let themselves be identified. How can those breaking the law be compared to those who immigrated to this nation in years past? I guess I am not as bright as some folks, but, I am having a hard time following that reasoning.
It has been said: If you stand for nothing - you will fall for anything.
Personally, I am against illegals receiving anything that they have not contributed toward. I am also against welfare for able bodied American citizens. I think there ought to be a limit to how long someone can be on welfare if they are able to work. I have heard all the excuses (i. e. the only jobs available are the low paying jobs, etc.). When I entered the Air Force I made about $68 per month. I was in 2 years before my pay reached the $200 per month mark. I have worked at many "menial" jobs to support myself and my family. I have been a laborer, hot tar roofer and farm worker. How did we make it? We had to live on what we made. We had to make it work. It was not easy, but we never considered doing something illegal to take advantage of the so-called system.
I am still disheartened about what is going on with illegal immigration and other things. This is why we sound off on here. If the waste in this nation continues (which it probably will), we will soon have destroyed ourselves from within.
Thanks for listen and please take no offense - none is intended.
Jerry
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Post by Paws on Dec 11, 2008 11:50:45 GMT 12.75
But Princess, the English and the French simply could not find the Native American Office of Immigration and Naturalization!
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Post by Toby Benoit on Dec 12, 2008 13:26:25 GMT 12.75
Now, I didn't read the whole post PRAM, but I didn't have to, your arguments are unrelated to current events. NA's didn't do enough to stop the unrestricted flow of imigrants...how'd that work out for them?
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Post by Snake Eyes on Dec 14, 2008 3:38:44 GMT 12.75
It's too damn easy for someone to get here lawfully, Toby I can assure you, after traveling around the world and having gone through many immigration processes, America is the most difficult country to legally immigrate and the most expensive. It's also the most intrusive and humiliating immigration system. Compared to that, immigrating to China and Russia under communist rule seemed like a walk in the park. Othmar, I am glad to hear that! But I don't think we object to those folks that choose to go thru the legal process of becoming a US citizen. Expensive,that may be true I don't know......But there are untold numbers of illegals that die or are killed by folks getting them to the US. Please, believe me when I say,this is not about Canada or Mexico, it is about a policy,that we allow, that invades our country from both borders! IMHO Snake-Eyes borders
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Post by princessrunamuck on Dec 14, 2008 4:38:18 GMT 12.75
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