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Post by Toby Benoit on May 14, 2007 3:45:00 GMT 12.75
No arguments today Preacher! ;D
Did Paul make it to Spain to establish a new church? Did Rome fund him or turn him aside?
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Post by Paws on May 14, 2007 5:06:50 GMT 12.75
Pastor! I was wondering about that because I know a Catholic lady that was calling Peter (Saint Peter if you will) "Rocky" as he was the rock upon which the Catholic church was built. Seemed to me that the credit for that function was a bit misplaced.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 14, 2007 6:22:00 GMT 12.75
True, but do those same people beleive the truth or are they beleiving a lie? It is part of our job to find out, and in a loving manner teach them what is right.
Not always true. I have known some, who after having rejected the gospel, finally come to realize that they are a sinner and in need of God's mercy. Sure, if you tell a person with the attitude of looking down on them instead of in love, you will anger them. But we are to tell others in an attitude of love.
Again, you need to share with an attitude of love. If this group of people feel you love them and want them to serve the Lord like they should, then even if they do react in anger, you have done your part.
Again, the proper attitude will go a long way. if I walk up to you and tell you that you are wrong, how would you take it? You would get mad. But if I walk up to you and say, "Brother, I would like you to examine this passage and tell me what you think", you would probaly look at that passage, and if you needed to, change your life. It is all about how you approach people.
It all depends on the person. Some will be drawn closer to Christ, while others might get mad. But, would you want to stand before the Lord, and have to admit that you were afraid to share His word with others because of how you were scared they were going to react?
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 14, 2007 6:23:18 GMT 12.75
No arguments today Preacher! ;D Did Paul make it to Spain to establish a new church? Did Rome fund him or turn him aside? Paul never made it to Rome except in chains. In fact, he never made it to Spain as far as we know. So, the church at Rome never had a chance to support him.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 14, 2007 6:25:23 GMT 12.75
Pastor! I was wondering about that because I know a Catholic lady that was calling Peter (Saint Peter if you will) "Rocky" as he was the rock upon which the Catholic church was built. Seemed to me that the credit for that function was a bit misplaced. You are right. The passage you are referring to uses two different words that King James translates into one. One is a small rock, something like gravel. The other is boulder, which is Jesus upon whom the church is built.
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Post by Paws on May 14, 2007 7:51:05 GMT 12.75
Pastor, much appreciated. Thought maybe this might add some perspective here:
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gooch
Water Fetcher
Yup this is me
Posts: 4
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Post by gooch on May 14, 2007 7:55:01 GMT 12.75
I don't know Bro Freddie, I have seen people angered just by someone mentioning that Jesus died for their sins. I even saw someone get mad because someone road by them on a bicycle with a hand written sign saying "Jesus Saves"
Actually if you ask me to read a passage and tell you what it means you are probably in for a long sometimes frustrating conversation. If you ask another Christian to tell you what a passage means however you are just exchanging pleasantries unless what they know that passage to mean is different than what you know it to mean. If you are talking to a friend as you do on here there is no problem but when it is a stranger it seems to usually ends up badly.
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Post by Mars on May 15, 2007 5:56:25 GMT 12.75
Not true entirely. Knowing the Bible exists and actualy reading it let alone understanding it are miles apart.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 15, 2007 9:59:03 GMT 12.75
You couldn't have said anything truer Mars! While people know about the Bible, how many actually read it for themselves? Most just trust what the preacher says and don't take the time to read the Bible or try to understand it for themselves.
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Post by Mars on May 16, 2007 5:39:36 GMT 12.75
I've been to churches like that. At a couple I was the only person with a Bible and that's including the preacher.
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Post by Paws on May 16, 2007 7:19:12 GMT 12.75
Here on the net you can use the www.blueletterbible.com site and look at any or all of the versions. There are also commentaries on words, phrases, and passages which are pretty interesting. Thing is, it's addictive!
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 16, 2007 9:13:02 GMT 12.75
Thanks Phil, I can use that in my studies
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Post by Paws on May 16, 2007 13:01:27 GMT 12.75
Just for fun today I ran "signs and wonders" and "miracles" in the KJV and NIV versions and then ran the terms in the dictionary. Man is there ever a ton of enlightenment in there! My guess was right. There apparently were four Greek words used which were translated to "miracle"; however, in the Greek they have very different meanings from one another. I think you will really like this.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 20, 2007 21:49:51 GMT 12.75
Romans 15:25-29 (King James Version)
25. But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 26. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 27. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles had been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things. 28. When therefore i have preformed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain. 29. And I am sure that when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
We have been studying the farewell address of Paul to the church at Rome. We have learned that Paul wanted to go to the church at Rome, and to get their support, for his missionary journey into Spain. We have learned that Paul didn't want to build upon another's foundation, mainly because of who he wanted to receive the glory. And that was Jesus. Paul wanted to spread the gospel wherever he was, preach to everyone that he met, so that all would come to a saving knowledge of the Lord. As we look at today's passage. let's keep these thoughts in mind so that we will stay in the context of what the Lord wants us to learn.
In verse 25 we see that Paul is going to Jerusalem to minister unto the saints there. I believe Paul knew that he was going to be made a prisoner in Jerusalem. There had been several that had told him so. But the Holy Spirit was leading Paul in this direction and he was willing to go. And when Paul got to Jerusalem, he was going to serve (minister) unto the saints. There are two things I would like us to learn form this verse. (1) We need to go where the Spirit leads us, no matter what the cost. (2) We need to be willing to serve others. Paul knew he was going to be captured and that he would probably lose his life, but the Holy Spirit was leading him in this direction and he was willing to follow the leadership of the Spirit. Are we? Do we love the Lord enough that we will follow His leadership no matter where it leads us or the cost? Do you love the Lord enough to be willing to lay down your life for Him? When Paul go to Jerusalem he was going to serve others. Are we humble enough to be a servant to others?
In verse 26 we see that the church's in Macedonia and Achaia had taken up a love offering for the church in Jerusalem and was sending it to them with Paul. Now we have to stop and think a moment about why these church's was sending money to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was a poor church, going through persecutions, and was needing the help. The church's in Macedonia and Achaia were willing to help. While these other churches were not rich, they were willing to help nonetheless. Are we? We have to keep in mind at all times that it is not our money that the Lord has blessed us with, but His. He has just allowed us to use it for a certain time. He is the One who has blessed us with this money and we are to use it for His honor and His glory. The churches in Macedonia and Achaia understood this concept. Do we? Are we willing to help those that are less fortunate than us? Do you love the Lord enough that you would be willing to give back to Him what He has blessed you with in the first place?
In verse 27 we see that it (taking up a love offering) pleased them (the churches in Macedonia and Achaia) verily (greatly). These churches desired to do what the Lord taught thus pleasing the Lord. In the next phrase of verse 27 we see why these churches took up this love offering. It was because they were debtors unto the Jews. Think about it for a moment. To whom was the gospel first given? It was given unto the Jews! But since they rejected it, it was then given unto the Gentiles (you and me). So in fact, we owe (are debtors) unto the Jews. The churches in Macedonia and Achaia realized this fact and were willing to show their love towards the Jews by sending this love offering. Do we love the Jews? A lot of people look down upon the Jews, but in fact they are still God's chosen people, and nothing will ever change that fact. So, do we love God's chosen people? In the next part of verse 27 we see Paul going into more detail about this. If we (Gentiles) are partakers of the spiritual things, then our duty is to minister unto them in carnal things. If we (as Gentiles) have been allowed to share in the spiritual things of the Jews, shouldn't we also be willing to serve them in carnal things? Folks, it all comes back to one simple concept. That is love your neighbor. We should love others enough that we are willing to help in any way possible. Do you love others enough to help them no matter what?
In verse 28 we see that Paul is willing to do what others have asked of him. He is willing to deliver the love offering to the church at Jerusalem, and then when he is done with this task, he will go to the church at Rome, to be sent out by the church at Rome to be a missionary unto Spain. Paul was willing to do whatever was asked of him to further the cause of Christ. Think about it for a moment. Paul had been told that when he got to Jerusalem, he would be captured and taken to Rome in chains. Instead of going the opposite direction, he was willing to go anyway. But instead of being depressed, Paul was looking forward to going to Spain to preach the gospel. Paul trusted in the Lord, no matter what. He was willing to serve the Lord, even if it meant his death. But instead of being depressed, he was making plans to reach out to others. Are we always looking forward to working for the Lord? Or when we get depressed, do we get the attitude of woe is me?
In verse 29 we see that Paul is sure that when he is allowed to go to the church in Rome that he would come in the blessings of the gospel of Christ. The point I am trying to make here is Paul followed the Lord no matter what. Even though he knew he was going to be taken to Rome in chains, Paul trusted in the Lord to see him through this trial. And if it was the Lord's will, Paul would then go to Rome before going to Spain. Folks, Paul didn't let his will get in the way of the Lord's will. Even though we know that Paul never made it to Spain, we do know that Paul done what the Lord wanted him to do. Can others say that of us? Can they say that we followed the Lord, no matter what?
In conclusion, we have seen that Paul followed the leadership of the Lord no matter what it cost him personally. He didn't get depressed, but kept making plans to do more for the Lord. Are we that way? Do we follow the Lord no matter what? Or do we say that we will follow if the price isn't too much? I guess the main question is, how much do you love the Lord? Are you willing to follow Him even unto death? Do you love Him enough to do whatever He wants you to do? He gave His life for you, do you trust Him enough to follow Him? Do you trust in the leadership of the Lord? My prayer is that you will follow the Lord no matter where He leads you. If you do, you will be blessed beyond measure.
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Post by Paws on May 21, 2007 0:29:28 GMT 12.75
Pastor I have heard it said that education is a slow process of transitioning from "Cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty." I believe I am learning.
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Post by Toby Benoit on May 21, 2007 4:44:43 GMT 12.75
I'm learning too, Phil. I look forward to Sundays now.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 27, 2007 22:32:24 GMT 12.75
Romans 15:30-33 (King James Version)
30. Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me. 31. That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea, and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints. 32. That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed, 33. Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
We have been looking the last several weeks at the farewell address of Paul to the church at Rome. We have learned that Paul was planning on going to Jerusalem, to take a love offering that other churches had taken up for the church there, then going on to Rome to ask personally for their support while he went on a missionary trip to Spain. Now, Paul was not preaching for money, but we all know the facts of life. It takes money to live. So, Paul was just going to ask them to help support him while on this journey. Some scholars believe that Paul actually got to go on this journey, and while there is some evidence to suggest this, we are not completely positive that he got to go. But, we have learned that we need to help others that may be in need of our assistance. Other churches had taken up a love offering for the church at Jerusalem because this church was undergoing persecution and was very poor.
In verse 30 we see that Paul was asking the church at Rome to pray with, and for him, in this task. Folks, we need to pray for each other! Paul desired the prayers of others, so that the will of God would be carried out. Remember, Paul knew he was going to be made a prisoner when he got to Jerusalem, but he was going to go anyway. Paul did not run away from what he knew the Lord wanted him to do. But why did Paul write "for the love of the Lord Jesus Christ's sake" and "for the love of the Spirit"? It is very simple. If you love the Lord, you will pray for the brethren. Folks, it may not seem like much, but prayers for those who are trying to do the will of the Lord is very helpful. In James 5:16 we read that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Brethren, I don't care who it is. If a person is trying to do the will of God, you need to pray for them. It could be your pastor, it could be a missionary, it could be anyone. But, you need to pray for them. But why should we? Think about it for a moment. If you pray for your pastor to have strength to carry on doing what the Lord desires, the Lord will bless both you and him. I know for my short time in the ministry that the prayers of those that have prayed for me have helped a lot. At times, it seems like I have taken on too much to do. It seems like there is never enough time, nor stamina to carry on doing what I need to do. I work a full time job, usually 12 to 14 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a family that I love and need to spend time with. Plus, I have my studies, for here, my classes with my pastor, and my sermons. So, it seems like there is never enough time to do all that I need to do. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. But, without the prayers of those that truly love the Lord, I would not be able to get all this done. I would literally run of strength and time. Brethren, your prayers help. Pray for those that are doing what the Lord wants them to do.
In verse 31 we see that Paul knew he was going to be taken prisoner while in Jerusalem. Paul desired the prayers of others so that those that did not believe in Judaea would not be able to prevail. But, from history, we know that they did. It would seem like the prayers of others did not help in this situation. But that is exactly the opposite. It was the will of the Lord that Paul be taken prisoner at this time. If you will read the book of Acts, you will see that the Lord had delivered Paul from capture several times. But, now, it was time for Paul to witness to Caesar and his court. Think about this. If Paul had not been taken prisoner, taken to Rome in chains, would he have gotten to tell Caesar about the Lord? No! So, while it seems like the prayers did not help, in fact they actually allowed Paul to witness to some that would have never heard the Gospel.
In verse 32 we see that Paul was desiring to go to Rome, but as a free man, and to be refreshed, by the church at Rome. But how was Paul wanting to come to the church there? It was with joy by the will of God. However Paul got to Rome, whether by prisoner, or other means, he was going to be there by the will of God. And since it was the will of God, he was going to be joyful. Now I'm sure that Paul didn't really want to go to Rome in chains, but as a freeman. But not matter how he got there, he realized it was the will of God. When Paul got to Rome, he wanted to be refreshed by them. The best example I can think of is a glass of water or iced tea. If you are out on a hot day, doing something, like working in a garden or mowing your yard, you tend to get hot and sweaty. If you then drink a tall glass of tea, or ice water, you feel refreshed. This is the same thing that Paul was referring to. When we gather together in one accord to worship the Lord, usually we feel refreshed. We are uplifted, and can then go on and face the daily struggles of life. We can say we have been refreshed.
In verse 33 we see that Paul desires that God of peace be with the church at Rome. Why did Paul say this? Think about this for a moment. If we are all praying for one another, like God intended, can there be anything but peace among us? God is the only one who can provide that peace. And if you are praying for someone else, how can you not love that person. If you love that person, you will have peace with them. You won't want to fight, but to exist harmoniously. Do you love the Lord enough to pray for others so that you'll have peace with them?
In conclusion, we have learned that we need to pray for those that are doing the will of God, that His will may be done. We have learned that when we pray for others, we will love that person, and have peace with them. When there is peace in the church, the church will them be blessed and be willing, and able, to carry on the will of God. Are you praying for the brethren? Do you love the Lord enough to pray for others? Remember, we are to be like Jesus. Jesus prayed for Peter. So, why don't we do the same? Brethren, let's pray for each other so that what ever it is the will of God may be carried out in our lives.
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Post by Paws on May 28, 2007 2:25:58 GMT 12.75
As usual, the Lord has chosen to speak to one who listens! Tfhank you Lord for choosing, Pastor for listening and sharing. Now if I can just get you guys to pray that I be willing to pray.... cause man I despise this person.... and I know better...
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Post by Toby Benoit on May 28, 2007 6:26:26 GMT 12.75
"If we are all praying for one another, like God intended, can there be anything but peace among us? God is the only one who can provide that peace." You bet, but you gotta thank God for them unanswered prayers too. It's entirely possible that if we didn't fight, we'd never completely know each other. However, I do pray, even for my enemies, but I usually pray that they stop being jerks and leave me alone. Paws, you lost me again on the last part there, but if someone's bugging you that bad, pray extra hard that God call him home soon for his reckoning! That'd be okay, wouldn't it Freddie?
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 28, 2007 6:32:11 GMT 12.75
It depends on the person you are praying for. If that person is lost, would you want to pray for God to remove them before they came to know the Lord?
Now, turn it around. Would you want someone to pray that you would be removed?
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