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Post by Mars on May 18, 2006 12:56:01 GMT 12.75
We will find another Church but for now we live without. My wifes handicap has given us a unique view of peoples attitude including religion. By this womans statement then Jobe was an evil person. Hers must be a good example of how "worldly" the Church has become. The attitude that God hates you or your "faith" is weak if your not "rich", live in a mansion and have perfect health. Funny thing is that she lives in an apartment like us, not a mansion, and claimed financial "superiority" based on what she perceives and her "true" faith. Judgment of this type is not Biblical because it's based on "perception" and not truth or reality. Example, calling a person a sodomite because of the way they act,talk and or dress is wrong but if they are "caught" in the act then it is not wrongly judgmental to call them a sodomite.
Also, like I posted, you cannot hate sin and "love" the sinner. I find nothing in the Bible that says this. You cannot hate what a person does but accept the person as "good". God himself will not separate the two and will cast sin and sinner into Hell unless Jesus intervenes on their behalf. As in life, God is the Judge and Jesus is the Defense Attorney. Go to Court without your Attorney and you lose. The "love" to be shown a sinner is to point them in the direction of salvation and lead them along the path but if they refuse to go then you are to "knock the dust from your sandals" and move on. You are not to "hate" them but you are not to strive or "cast pearls before swine" either.
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Post by Toby Benoit on May 18, 2006 16:34:04 GMT 12.75
My brother ran into a woman, like the one criticising your wife Mars.
She guaranteed him that he was going to die of his cancer and burn in hell if he didn't immediately stop the chemotherapy and instead chant some prayers twelve times a day.
She was a total loon!
I too stopped going to church. I've been to a few of them and they were all about three things. Money, status, and gossip.
I don't have a lot of money, I don't care about status, and I hate gossip. Instead, I gather with family, I read my bible, I pray often , and find God in all that I do and experience. He's out there watching and His angels are here with me, while His Son is assuring me of my life eternal in the heavens.
I don't have to go to a special building to pray and now I have Freddie to answer any questions I have.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 19, 2006 5:38:18 GMT 12.75
Mars, If I said that, I was wrong. What i meant was that we are to hate the sin that a person commits, but love the person. I guess the best way to put it is that we are to be like Jesus. He hates sin, but He loved us so much that He gave His life for us. We are to hate sin and the effects of sin. But we are to love the sinner so much that we are willing to lead them to the Saviour. In other words, we are to love people in general, so that when we tell them about Jesus we do it in a spirit of love and not condemnation.
This is essentially the same thing I'm saying ;D
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 19, 2006 5:45:03 GMT 12.75
Toby,
I'm flattered and humbled by your trust in me. But, what about the words Paul wrote in Hebrews 10:25? "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." This is the reason we are to go to church. We are to assemble together, to encourage one another, because as the return of Jesus approaches we will need it, so that we will stand solid for Him.
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Post by Mars on May 19, 2006 10:43:52 GMT 12.75
I believe that to mean a Church as not a building or place but simply a gathering of Christians in one place for the purpose of instruction and spiritual uplifting. It does not matter the number of persons or if it's in an actual building or in the woods and fields.Hence, Toby's gathering of family for this purpose is Rightfully a Church.
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Post by Mars on May 19, 2006 10:45:56 GMT 12.75
Wildhog, I hope you got some needed rest!!!!
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 19, 2006 10:50:26 GMT 12.75
Mars,
I'm getting there. I drive a truck and I leave out most nights at midnight and get in about 12-14 hrs later. I usually lay down about 6PM. The first part of the week is rough, because I get outta Sunday night church after 7 and then on Mondays oldest son plays baseball, and daddy has to go watch ;D. But toward the latter part of the week I start getting used to it, then start all over next Monday
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 19, 2006 10:55:01 GMT 12.75
close but not quite. The first church was started by Jesus on the shores of Galilee and has been in existence ever since. Sure, a church ain't a building, but a church is a convented together group of local baptized believers. I believe the true church started with Jesus and is still here today. A true church should be able to trace its roots all the way back to Christ through other churches.
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Post by Paws on May 19, 2006 13:49:34 GMT 12.75
Freedie, just what did you think we were doing here?
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Post by Toby Benoit on May 19, 2006 17:55:05 GMT 12.75
I had a long winded, even eloquent, reply to Pul's message Freddie, but the power went down with the thunderstorm before I could post. I just go home and the power's up, but Mars and Paws have already made my point for me.
You see, I asemble. Not just with family, but with friends and even strangers and I'm no preacher, but I'm always willing to discuss the great things that are in my life by the blessings of God.
Isn't there a verse that speaks something like, "where ever to or more are gathered together..."? I can't remember it, but I'll try to look it up tomorrow.
And like Paws points out. That's exactly what we're doing here in this post.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 20, 2006 9:23:30 GMT 12.75
What we are doing on these posts is discussing scripture. Sure, this is almost like church, because I look forward to it a whole lot. But, we need real live fellowship with others to encourage us and to strengthen us.
Toby, the verse you are thinking of is Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" Before you go to thinking this is a verse about a small assembly, read the previous verses starting at verse 15. This is one of the common misconceptions of the Bible. Read Matthew 18: 15-20 and then see what you think. I'm not going to quote it because I want you to read it and see what kinda conclusions you make ;D Remember to keep it in context ;D
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Post by Paws on May 20, 2006 10:01:09 GMT 12.75
Aw Freddie he would have read it if you printed it out! For some of us participating in a physical assembly can be difficult Freddie. Not making excuses, just telling you how it is. In my case it is going to get a lot easier real soon.
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Post by Toby Benoit on May 20, 2006 12:12:22 GMT 12.75
I get that we're to talk with out "brothers" and try to show him the way and that if he won't listen, get a couple of others to testify for him, then if he still won't listen, take him before the church.
It doesn't define what a church is though.
It goes on to tell me that if that brother doesn't still come around to give up and move on. Then qualifies what I've believed all of my life in verse twenty.
Read Luke 11:1-13 and tell me your take on that.
Also Ephesians 6:18-21.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 20, 2006 22:08:51 GMT 12.75
The word "church" is actually the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as assembly. This word was used among the Greeks to mean a body of citizens gathered to discuss the affairs of state. The Greeks knew it as an assembly, not as an elaborate ceremony. Something that I have found interesting and is worthy of thought. The word ekklesia is actually a combination of 2 Greek words, ek (out of) and klesis (a calling). So, a church is a calling out of. But just what are we called out of? We are called out of the world! In other words, we are to be different. People should be able to look at us, and say "There's something different about him." And then they should be curious and want to know what it is, and then we can be an effective witness for Jesus. Another thing is that there is strength in numbers. Think about it for a second. Who is our advarsary? SATAN! Which one of us can oppose him on our own? I know I can't. I need the strength of others, along with their prayers, to strengthen me. I need these things on a regular basis. I need to assemble with other believers.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 20, 2006 22:30:24 GMT 12.75
Luke 11:1-4 is Luke's version of the model prayer. Matthew's version of this same prayer can be found in Matthew 6:9-13. Luke 11:5-13 is an example of the way prayer works. The example given is a man that goes to a friend and asks for some bread. The friend is asleep and so is the rest of the household. Even though the friend is inconvenienced he will get up and answer the man's request. Isn't this how God answers our prayers? We come to the Father in prayer, and he grants our requests. As I looked further, I noticed a pattern. I kept seeing the words "ask", "seek", and "knock". We are to ask the Father for the things we need. We are to seek His will in these matters, and then we are to knock or ask again after we know what His will is. Jesus then goes on to explain what He means in an example of a parent and children. Would you give your son a rock if he asked you for bread? Would you give your child a scorpion if he asked you for an egg? Would you give your child a snake if he asked for a fish? These questions all have the same answer. No! So, Jesus sums it up in verse 13. If we, being evil, know how to give good things to our children, how much more does God know how to give good things to us. All we have to do is ask. Now, I'm not saying, ask the Lord for a new bass boat and He will give it to you. We are to ask like the model prayer shows us. That the Lord's will be done, and that we have enough for today. Not tomorrow, today.
The first thing we have to keep in mind here is who Paul is writing to. He is writing to the church at Ephesus. Not to the lost, but to the believers. What Paul is saying is that we, as believers, should pray. We should pray, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, for all of the saved (saints). Not just one time prayer, but all the time. Then, Paul asks them to pray for him too. Paul knew a fact that all preachers know. That is, we need the prayers of people to help strengthen us. Believe me, I know this fact. I can't explain it, but when I preach, I know when people have been praying for me. I just know it. These prayers give me strength to boldly proclaim the gospel. Why? Because God's children are asking the Father to help me. And I know I can't proclaim the Gospel like I should without these prayers. So, basically Paul is saying that he needed the prayers of the church, and so do I.
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 20, 2006 22:50:46 GMT 12.75
Phil, I know. But I believe we should make every effort to attend. God has chosen to bless His children through the church. And I'm greedy ;D. I don't want to miss out on a single blessing. One of these days, when I stand before Jesus and am judged, I want to hear Him say " Well done thou good and faithful servant". I know I will enter in, but I want to be counted among the faithful. I want to hear Him say "Well done".
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Post by Paws on May 21, 2006 1:10:50 GMT 12.75
and...
Amen!
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Post by Paws on May 21, 2006 1:21:36 GMT 12.75
Freddie, how long has it been since you had one of those "change of Plans" laid on your sermon intents at the last minute? ;D
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Post by Bro. Freddie on May 21, 2006 1:49:36 GMT 12.75
Freddie, how long has it been since you had one of those "change of Plans" laid on your sermon intents at the last minute? ;D Not too long ago I was sitting in the pew looking over my notes and the text for the day and I totally changed my sermon. I realized that I was off base on my main points and changed it right then and there. When that happens, I feel like one of the Old Testament prophets. No, I'm not prophesying, but I know how they felt when God gave them a specific message. I have been told and I agree, that preachers are more like the old prophets than priests. Priests offer sacrifices and there is only one sacrifice, and that is Jesus. But a prophet delivers a message God has laid on his heart. Thats what I try to do. Sometimes I fail, cause I'm only human, but I try to deliver the Word like God intended. Thats why study, prayer and private time for contemplation is very important in preparing a sermon.
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Post by Paws on May 21, 2006 4:48:55 GMT 12.75
Here is something you might like to try. Set yourself an appointment to pray in the church after services or before evening services when the deacons are there doing the same thing. You know the time when the lights are low or out and everybody whos is there to pray is quiet and jpicks out their own pew. While you pray pay attention and see how the topic of the prayers of everyone begin to come together as one and begin to sound like one person praying. When the hair stands up on your neck and the goose bumps start crawling down your arms; then you'll know wat God has to say! ;D That's when I learned how to praise God ;D
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