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Post by OLKoot on Jun 1, 2009 8:50:37 GMT 12.75
Source: Suspect in custody in abortion doc slaying AP
* Buzz Up
* Abortion doctor shot to death Slideshow:Abortion doctor shot to death
By ROXANA HEGEMAN, Associated Press Writer Roxana Hegeman, Associated Press Writer – 17 mins ago
WICHITA, Kan. – A Wichita city official says a suspect is in custody in the shooting death of late-term abortion provide George Tiller
The city official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the case. The official did not provide additional details.
An attorney for Tiller, Dan Monnat, says the doctor was shot Sunday as he served as an usher during morning services at Reformation Lutheran Church. Monnat said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time of the shooting.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller, a prominent advocate for abortion rights wounded by a protester more than a decade ago, was shot and killed Sunday at a church in Wichita where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir, his attorney said.
Tiller was shot during morning services at Reformation Lutheran Church, attorney Dan Monnat said. Police said a manhunt was under way for the shooter, who fled in a car registered to a Kansas City suburb nearly 200 miles away.
National anti-abortion groups had long focused on Tiller, whose Women's Health Care Services clinic is one of just three in the nation where abortions are performed after the 21st week of pregnancy.
In 1991, the Summer of Mercy protests organized by Operation Rescue drew thousands of anti-abortion activists to this city for demonstrations marked by civil disobedience and mass arrests.
Some abortion opponents had resorted to attacks against Tiller long before Sunday's shooting. A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985.
Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue issued a statement denouncing the shooting.
"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," said Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning."
Capt. Brent Allred said Wichita police were looking for a gunman who fled in a 1993 light blue Ford Taurus registered in the Kansas City suburb of Merriam, Kan. No other details about the shooting were immediately released.
The phone line at the home of Tiller and wife, Jeanne, had a busy signal Sunday.
Tiller began providing abortion services in 1973. He acknowledged abortion was as socially divisive as slavery or prohibition but said the issue was about giving women a choice when dealing with technology that can diagnose severe fetal abnormalities before a baby is born.
"Pre-natal testing without pre-natal choices is medical fraud," Tiller once said.
After the 1991 protests, Tiller kept mostly to his heavily guarded clinic, although in 1997 he opened it to three tours by state lawmakers and the media.
Tiller remained prominent in the news, in part because of an investigation started begun by former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline, an abortion opponent.
Prosecutors had alleged that Tiller had gotten second opinions from a doctor who was essentially an employee of his, not independent as state law requires. A jury in March acquitted Tiller of all 19 misdemeanor counts.
"I am stunned by this lawless and violent act, which must be condemned and should be met with the full force of law," Kline said in a written statement. "We join in lifting prayer that God's grace and presence rest with Dr. Tiller's family and friends."
Abortion opponents also questioned then-Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' ties to Tiller before the Senate confirmed her this year as U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary. Tiller donated thousands of dollars to Sebelius over the years.
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Post by Mars on Jun 2, 2009 3:05:48 GMT 12.75
It wasn't murder but a very late term abortion done to a parasite.
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Post by OLKoot on Jun 2, 2009 5:21:00 GMT 12.75
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Post by Snake Eyes on Jun 3, 2009 0:08:34 GMT 12.75
It wasn't murder but a very late term abortion done to a parasite. mars, I really don't know why but we seem to bump heads here on occasion. I agree with most here about abortion, but weather in the womb or on the street murder is murder. I personally don't see the difference of defending one over the other. To ;D for one and over the other is hypocritical at least to me. I absolutely respect your thoughts on the issue. Friend ,I hope we can agree to disagree. snake-eyes
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Post by Paws on Jun 3, 2009 0:58:55 GMT 12.75
It wasn't murder but a very late term abortion done to a parasite. mars, I really don't know why but we seem to bump heads here on occasion. I agree with most here about abortion, but weather in the womb or on the street murder is murder. I personally don't see the difference of defending one over the other. To ;D for one and over the other is hypocritical at least to me. I absolutely respect your thoughts on the issue. Friend ,I hope we can agree to disagree. snake-eyes I think you are both in synch alright. Neither of you approve of "murder" in any form. So where is the arguement? Mars has a point in that taking out that child killing adult is no worse than him murdering innocent babies who haven't been given a chance to live. This late term abortion crap is simply one of Satans divisive, sounds good, bull shit ways of tearing down our nation. I too believe in "Freedom of choice". That freedom ends when that woman "chooses" to spread her legs and that man "chooses" to drop his drawers! "My body, my choice"? Well you dumb bitch it ain't "your" body that you are killin', now is it!
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Post by Mars on Jun 3, 2009 8:05:20 GMT 12.75
Snake eyes;
I don't think we disagree except that I see the murder of a murderer as justice served. The only thing needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Do I condone it? No but I do understand why it happened and why it will again. There is far more hypocrisy in defending someone who has taken thousands of innocent lives and then condeming his death.
If I could have jumped in front of this guy and taken a bullet to save his life I would not take the bullet however, if I knew before hand the guy was going to be killed I would have called the police.
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Post by gsoflittledove on Jun 4, 2009 15:54:58 GMT 12.75
Does anyone remember what it was like before?
Two girls met a Quack at a local Gas Station, I understand a coat hanger was used. He charged $50.00 each. one fine girl got a infection and She Died, the other could not have children and she took her own life.
Both girls were in my Senior class.
No I don't like killing the unborn; but I don't wont it to go back as it were before.
GOD Bless Everyone Bill
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Post by Snake Eyes on Jun 5, 2009 1:08:21 GMT 12.75
Bill, I absolutely remember those days,but not with the personal experience that you have,so I see how you feel. So what is the answer? Education? Tolerance? Abortion? In the days that you describe there were also many,many young ladies and their families that handled the situation without a hanger or any other type of abortion. Seems to me that in these times no one is willing to take that responsibility. There just must be a solution between the hanger and so called legal abortion.IMO To me personally this is more of a social issue than a religious issue. But both are being ignored by all but CONSERVATIVESsnake-eyes
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Jun 5, 2009 2:00:04 GMT 12.75
There are so many people out there that want children, but due to a medical reason they can not have children,so if the women don't want the baby they are caring, give them up for adoption.
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Post by gsoflittledove on Jun 5, 2009 2:43:42 GMT 12.75
Snake; you are so right; That was the time when moms started working away from home. Yes, We also had some unwed mothers, most would go and stay at a relatives house in another town. I know the problem is at home. We have lost our family values. And with the motto (JUST DO IT). (IT'S YOU). (THEY WILL NEVER KNOW). (DO AS I SAY-NOT AS I DO). Us older Fools don't have a chance.
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Post by Mars on Jun 5, 2009 4:07:54 GMT 12.75
The misconception is that it still occurs. There are still many "backroom" abortions being done by doctors and non doctors. In fact, many more then used to be.
The other misconception is that sterility is still a possibility of an abortion as is infection and death of the woman. Being legalized doesn't change the hazards of a medical procedure.
I belonged to a Church that counseled women after abortions. There are many problems both medically and psychologically after a woman has an abortion and the abortion doctors just push the women onto their family MDs who cannot or are unequipped to deal with the problems.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Jun 5, 2009 11:58:17 GMT 12.75
I stayed out of the discussion for a few days because I didn't honestly know how I felt about it.
Still don't.
I do know, he'll not be mourned by me; no more or less than Guerring, Hussein, Idi Amein, or any of the other mass murderers.
My only problem is that it was a wasted act. Some other blood-money doctor will step up to the plate and the killings will continue. The "assailant" could have taken another route to bring about better results for the unborn. It doesn't make sense to me to make the guy a martyr...
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Post by Snake Eyes on Jun 6, 2009 1:57:53 GMT 12.75
My only problem is that it was a wasted act. Some other blood-money doctor will step up to the plate and the killings will continue. The "assailant" could have taken another route to bring about better results for the unborn. It doesn't make sense to me to make the guy a martyr... Toby, I know I am in a small minority here,but I still think that murder without judicial justice is still murder.I don't agree with the 'DEAD' Dr either but,change the law don't kill the person that has lawfully abided by it. Anyone else think we should bypass laws and do as we wish? At what point do we distinguish between killing a medical Dr. operating under the current law,and terrorism??? snake-eyes
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Post by Mars on Jun 6, 2009 3:00:23 GMT 12.75
I do, to an extent. The Colonists disobeying English Law,Abolitionists disobeying the Law and smuggling slaves and Jews defying the Law that sent them to the death camps are all examples of Laws that needed to be disobeyed from the past.
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Post by OLKoot on Jun 6, 2009 11:56:20 GMT 12.75
I was listening to a well educated and highly respected doctor who said that most full term births or close to full term are definitely capable of surviving and its not generally needed to kill them...Some reasons given for abortion was headaches, money and other irrational reasoning not attributed to the pregnancy...In general, to kill that child , all they do is put a needle with drugs through the fontanal hole or just snap the childs neck.....If that aint murder, what is??? Someone once said the only reason abortion was made legal was so that ugly woman could get laid!!! >
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Post by RogueWarrior1957 on Jun 6, 2009 14:10:59 GMT 12.75
My only problem is that it was a wasted act. Some other blood-money doctor will step up to the plate and the killings will continue. The "assailant" could have taken another route to bring about better results for the unborn. It doesn't make sense to me to make the guy a martyr... Toby, I know I am in a small minority here,but I still think that murder without judicial justice is still murder.I don't agree with the 'DEAD' Dr either but,change the law don't kill the person that has lawfully abided by it. Anyone else think we should bypass laws and do as we wish? At what point do we distinguish between killing a medical Dr. operating under the current law,and terrorism??? snake-eyes Pardon me for jumping in here on the fray...I am not saying it was right to murder the doctor...but that doctor's hands were not clean either. He broke a much older law and a solemn vow he took when he graduated medical school. Every doctor of medicine and some non-surgeon doctors take that oath which states a number of things that the doctor will and will not do. The Hippocratic Oath is though to have been written in the 4th century B.C. by Hippocrates, who is considered the father of modern medicine. The oath states: [glow=red,2,300] "I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement: To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot."[/glow] These were very strong words and considered a sacred oath, although they predate the Christian era and the gods sworn to were not the same one we pray to. But the thing is...doctors still take this oath...then they break it. So I won't lose sleep over a doctor who broke it and got whacked, although I don't believe anyone has the right to play "God" and end someone's life. The laws of our land have degenerated into a pale image of what our forefathers intended...and every day they grow one shade paler. Every doctor who performs abortions will have to answer to every one of those martyred souls on judgement day. That is exactly who is referred to when it says "Judged by the souls of the innocents." I would not want to face that multitude of accusers.
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