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Post by Toby Benoit on May 14, 2010 7:57:45 GMT 12.75
What's a more potent, close range, deer round; a rifle fired .45LC, .44-40, or .357?
I want to get a .44Mag carbine, but curious how the other three would stack up. Any input?
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Post by OLKoot on May 14, 2010 11:01:24 GMT 12.75
I'm not much on this stuff, but I did some checking on the 44-40...
.44-40 Winchester From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to:navigation, search .44-40 44-40 Winchester - 3.jpg .44-40 Winchester cartridge Type Rifle/Pistol Place of origin United States Production history Designer Winchester Repeating Arms Company Designed 1873 Specifications Parent case .44 Henry Case type rimmed, bottlenecked Bullet diameter .427 in (10.8 mm) Neck diameter .443 in (11.3 mm) Shoulder diameter .457 in (11.6 mm) Base diameter .471 in (12.0 mm) Rim diameter .525 in (13.3 mm) Case length 1.310 in (33.3 mm) Primer type Large pistol Ballistic performance Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy 200 gr (13 g) lead 1,245 ft/s (379 m/s) 688 ft·lbf (933 J) 217 gr (14.1 g) lead 1,190 ft/s (360 m/s) 682 ft·lbf (925 J) 225 gr (14.6 g) lead 750 ft/s (230 m/s) 281 ft·lbf (381 J)
The .44-40 Winchester, also known as the .44 Winchester, the .44 WCF (Winchester Center Fire), and the .44 Largo (in spanish speaking countries) was introduced in 1873 by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. It was the first centerfire metallic cartridge offered by Winchester, and was brought out as the standard chambering for the new Winchester Model 1873 rifle.[1][2] Both rifle and cartridge soon became widely popular and ubiquitous, so much so that the Winchester 1873 became known as "The gun that won the West".[2][3]
Remington and Marlin soon released their own rifles and pistols which chambered the round, Colt also offered it as an alternative chambering in its popular Single Action Army revolver in a model known as the Colt Frontier Six-Shooter. Settlers, lawmen, and cowboys appreciated the convenience of being able to carry a single caliber of ammunition which they could fire in both pistol and rifle. In both law enforcement and hunting usage the .44-40 became the most popular cartridge in the United States and to this day has the reputation of killing more deer than any other save the .30-30 Winchester.[4][5]
When the Union Metallic Cartridge Co. (U.M.C.) began selling the cartridge, it called its own version the .44-40, (shorthand for .44 caliber and the standard load at the time of 40 grains of blackpowder), as it didn’t want to offer free advertising by mentioning the name of a competitor. Unfortunately for Winchester, the name stuck and it threw in the towel by itself adopting the .44-40 designation for the round after World War II.[1] Although according to Winchester's website, as of January 2009, it is referred to as "44-40 Winchester".
The initial standard load for the cartridge was 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder propelling a 200-grain (13 g) bullet at approximately 1,245 f.p.s (feet per second), but in 1886 U.M.C. also began offering a slightly heavier 217-grain (14.1 g) bullet at 1,190 ft/s (360 m/s), also with 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder. Winchester soon began to carry the 217-grain (14.1 g) loading as well, but in 1905 U.M.C. discontinued the heavier load. In 1895 Winchester switched to a 17-grain (1.1 g) loading of DuPont No. 2 Smokeless powder with the 200-grain (13 g) bullet for 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s), and in 1896 U.M.C. followed suit with a reintroduced 217-grain (14.1 g) bullet @ 1,235 ft/s (376 m/s) Soon both companies were offering the cartridge with lead ‘Metal Patched’ (i.e. jacketed), and full metal case versions. In 1903 Winchester began offering a higher performance version of the loading called the W.H.V. (Winchester High Velocity), boasting a velocity of 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) with a 200-grain (13 g) jacketed bullet from a 24-inch (610 mm) barrel length, U.M.C. and Peters Cartridge Company soon introduced equivalents. Over the years a number of different bullet weights and styles have been offered, including 122, 140, 160,165, 166, 180 and 217-grain (14.1 g) in lead, soft and hollow point, full metal case, and even blanks and shotshells. The most common current loading is a 200-grain (13 g) bullet @ 1,190 ft/s (360 m/s)[1]
By 1942 more modern cartridges had all but eclipsed the .44-40, but it regained some popularity in the 1950s and '60s when Colt began once again to manufacture the Single Action Army and Frontier.[6] More recently the .44-40 has enjoyed a resurgence due to the popularity of Cowboy action shooting, which inspired the introduction of a 225-grain (14.6 g) loading, the heaviest factory bullet ever available for the cartridge.[1]
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Post by OLKoot on May 14, 2010 11:03:52 GMT 12.75
.45 Colt From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to:navigation, search .45 Colt 45 Colt - 1.jpg
Type Revolver Place of origin United States Service history Used by United States Production history Designer US Army Designed 1872 Specifications Case type Rimmed, straight Bullet diameter .454 (lead), .451 (jacketed) Neck diameter .480 in (12.2 mm) Base diameter .480 in (12.2 mm) Rim diameter .512 in (13.0 mm) Rim thickness .060 in (1.5 mm) Case length 1.285 in (32.6 mm) Overall length 1.600 in (40.6 mm) Rifling twist 1-38 in Primer type Large pistol Ballistic performance Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy 255 gr (16.5 g) Lead SWC 961 ft/s (293 m/s) 523 ft·lbf (709 J) 200 gr (13 g) XTP 1,032 ft/s (315 m/s) 473 ft·lbf (641 J) 230 gr (15 g) XTP 969 ft/s (295 m/s) 480 ft·lbf (650 J) 250 gr (16 g) XTP 929 ft/s (283 m/s) 479 ft·lbf (649 J) 325 gr (21.1 g) Buffalo Bore heavy lead +P 1,325 ft/s (404 m/s) 1,267 ft·lbf (1,718 J) Test barrel length: 7.5 inches (190 mm) Source: Accurate Powder
The .45 Colt cartridge is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It began as a black powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army revolver, but is also a common magnum level handgun hunting round in modern usage. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as the official US military handgun cartridge for 19 years. Contents [hide]
* 1 History * 2 Cartridge loads * 3 Uses * 4 Comparisons with other cartridges * 5 Original name * 6 See also * 7 References * 8 External links
[edit] History
The .45 Colt was a joint development between Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company, of Hartford, Connecticut, and the Union Metallic Cartridge Company of Bridgeport, Conn. Colt began work on the revolver in 1871, and submitted a sample to the U.S. Army in late 1872. The revolver was accepted for purchase in 1873.
The cartridge, itself, was of outside lubricated type, but eliminated the rebated heel type bullet, often attributed to a Russian designer. The .45 Colt replaced the .50 caliber Model 1871 Remington single shot pistol and the various cap-and-ball revolvers converted to take metallic cartridges in use at the time. While the Colt remained popular, the Smith & Wesson M1875 Army Schofield Revolver, was approved as an alternate. The S&W revolver took a shorter cartridge, which would also work in the Colt, so Frankford Arsenal, then almost exclusive supplier of small arms ammunition to the U.S. Army, dropped production of the Colt round. The M1875 round was replaced by the .38 Long Colt in 1892. In 1909, the .45 M1909 round was issued along with the Colt New Service revolver. This round was never loaded commercially, and is almost identical to the original Colt round, except having a larger diameter rim. The rim is large enough that it cannot be loaded in adjacent chambers in the rod-ejector Colt model.
The .45 Colt remains popular with renewed interest in Cowboy Action Shooting. However, the round also saw resurgence as a cartridge in handgun hunting and Metallic Silhouette Shooting competitions in the 1960s with the introduction of stronger heavier framed handguns. It also became the basis for rounds such as the .454 Casull. [edit] Cartridge loads .45 Long Colt cartridge featuring a jacketed hollow point bullet
The .45 Colt originally was a blackpowder cartridge, but modern loadings use smokeless powder. The original blackpowder loads called for 28 to 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder behind a 230 to 255-grain (16.5 g) lead bullet. These loads developed muzzle velocities of up to 1000 feet per second (305 m/s).[1] Because of this power and its excellent accuracy the .45 Colt was the most-used cartridge at the time of its introduction, succeeding the .44 WCF (also known as the .44-40 Winchester). The 45 Colt never enjoyed the 44-40's advantage of a Winchester rifle chambered for it, allowing use of the same cartridge in both pistol and rifle. Modern Winchesters, Marlins and replicas have remedied this omission almost 100 years after the fact and the 45 Colt is now available in modern lever-action rifles. It was an accurate chambering for a pistol of the time, and remains so today. Cartridges Colt .45
Today's standard factory loads develop around 400 ft·lbf (542 J) of muzzle energy at about 860 feet per second (262 m/s), making it somewhat more powerful than the .45 ACP. There are also Cowboy Action Shooting loads which develop muzzle velocities of around 750 feet per second (230 m/s).
Some very heavy handloads and some manufactured cartridges put this round in the same class as the faster .44 Magnum. Such loads are not issued by major companies such as Winchester and Remington. These loads cannot be used safely in any original Colt Single-Action Army or any replica thereof; such as those produced by Uberti, Beretta, the Taurus Gaucho, or the Ruger New Vaquero as these guns are built on the smaller frame with thinner cylinder walls. They should be used only in modern large-frame revolvers such as the Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, Ruger Vaquero (erroneously referred to as the "Old Model" to differentiate it from the "New Model"), Thompson Center Contender or any gun firing the .454 Casull cartridge. Modern rifles with strong actions (such as the Winchester Model 1894, Marlin Model 1894, and new clones of the Winchester Model 1892) chambered for the cartridge can safely handle the heavier loadings. [edit] Uses
Colt began work on their 1873 Single Action Army Model in 1871. Sample cartridges submitted for Army tests were made by UMC, using the Benet cup primers; commercial ammunition used the Berdan-type primer, followed by the more common Boxer priming. Original UMC loads used a 40-grain powder charge and 250-gr. bullet. This was reduced to 35 grs. of powder, and later, by the Army, to 28 grs.
Over 130 years after its introduction, the .45 Colt still enjoys a wide range of uses. The .45 Colt is used as a hunting load on animals the size of deer and black bear. Heavier handloads will take the same range of big game animals as the .44 Magnum. Several two-barrel derringers are also sold that are chambered in .45 Colt, and these derringers will also chamber a .410 bore shotgun shell without any modifications being required. Similarly, .45 Colt cartridges are still fired occasionally, though not good for the shotguns, in .410-bore shotguns (with internal barrel choke removed) by U.S. farmers needing to kill a mule or horse humanely. However, the most popular use for the .45 Colt today is in Cowboy Action Shooting, where the round is fired from either original or replicas of the 1873 Colt Single-Action Army.
Winchester, Marlin and other manufacturers produce lever-action rifles chambered in .45 Colt. Colt has resumed production of the Single-Action Army, and many SAA replicas and near-replicas as well as modern-design single-actions by Ruger are chambered in this caliber. [edit] Comparisons with other cartridges .45 Colt shown along side other cartridges. From left to right: 30-06, 7.62x39, .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .45 Auto, 9mm, .380, .22 Long Rifle
The .45 Colt is the basis for the much more powerful .454 Casull cartridge, with the .454 Casull having a slightly longer and stronger case. Any .454 Casull revolver will also chamber and fire .45 Colt, but the inverse is impossible due to the Casull's longer case.
The .45 Colt, when loaded to its potential, produces greater power with less recoil and chamber pressure than a .44 Magnum. All of this is achieved with a larger caliber bullet.[2]
The .460 S&W Magnum is an even longer version of the .454 Casull and the .45 Colt. Likewise, .460 Magnum revolvers can also chamber and fire the two lesser calibers, but again, the inverse is impossible. [edit] Original name
The designation ".45 Long Colt" originated amongst military personnel to prevent confusion with the smaller .45 Schofield. It has become a popular alternative name for the cartridge, and adopted by Colt for use in designating the chambering in its own Single Action Army revolvers.[3] [edit] See also
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Post by OLKoot on May 14, 2010 11:05:01 GMT 12.75
The .357 S&W Magnum, or simply .357 Magnum, is a revolver cartridge created by Elmer Keith, Phillip B. Sharpe,[3] Colonel D. B. Wesson[3] of firearms manufacturer Smith & Wesson, and Winchester.[4][5] It is based upon Smith & Wesson's earlier .38 Special cartridge. The .357 Magnum cartridge was introduced in 1934, and its use has since become widespread. This cartridge started the "Magnum" era of handgun ammunition.[6] This cartridge has sufficient energy to produce hydrostatic shock (remote wounding effects) in living targets,[7] which probably contributes to its positive reputation for stopping power.[8] Contents [hide]
* 1 Design * 2 Performance * 3 Comparison * 4 Synonyms * 5 See also * 6 References * 7 External links
[edit] Design
The .357 Magnum was collaboratively developed over a period in the early to mid-1930s by a group of individuals in a direct response to Colt's .38 Super Automatic. At the time, the .38 Super was the only American pistol cartridge capable of defeating automobile cover and the early ballistic vests that were just beginning to emerge in the post-World War I "Gangster Era."[4] Tests at the time revealed that those vests defeated any handgun cartridge traveling at less than about 1000 ft/s. Colt's .38 Super Automatic just edged over that velocity and was able to penetrate car doors and vests that bootleggers and gangsters were employing as cover. [9]
Though .38 and .357 would seem to be different-diameter chamberings, in fact they are identical. 0.357 inch is the true bullet diameter of the .38 Special cartridge as well. The .38 Special nomenclature relates to the previous use of heeled bullets (such as the .38 Long Colt), which were the same diameter as the case. Thus, the only external difference in the two cartridges is a slight difference in length, solely for safety purposes as explained below.
Much credit for the .357's early development is given to hunter and experimenter Elmer Keith. Keith's early work in loading the .38 Special to increasingly higher pressure levels was made possible by the availability of heavy, target shooting-oriented revolvers like the Smith & Wesson 38/44 "Heavy Duty" and "Outdoorsman", .38-caliber revolvers built on .44-caliber frames. The .38-44 HV load, used the .38 Special cartridge loaded to a much higher velocity than standard .38 Special ammunition. The .38-44 revolvers were made by using a .44 Special size gun with the barrel and cylinder bored to .357 caliber (the true bullet diameter of the .38 Special). Since the frame, cylinder, and barrel were much stronger than the standard .38 Special components, it was capable of withstanding much higher pressures. The .38-44 HV round, while no longer available, was in most cases the equal of the later .357 Magnum, which works at more than double the pressure of standard .38 Special. The .357 Magnum addresses the safety issues earlier cartridges had by stretching the case by approximately 1/8th of an inch, preventing the high pressure .357 cartridge from chambering in a firearm designed for the shorter, lower pressure .38.[10] Elmer Keith also contributed the Keith-style bullet, which increased the mass of bullet located outside of the cartridge, while leaving more room inside the cartridge for powder. The Keith bullet also employed a large, flat meplat, thus enabling rapid energy transfer for greater wounding properties. At the same time, this bullet design does not deform like a hollow point, and as a result achieves greater penetration. These characteristics of the Keith bullet make it very suitable for hunting applications as well as target shooting.
In order to reassert itself as the leading law enforcement armament provider, Smith & Wesson developed the .357 Magnum, with Colonel D. B. Wesson leading the effort within Smith & Wesson, along with considerable technical assistance from Phillip B. Sharpe, a member of the Technical Division Staff of the National Rifle Association. The new round was developed from Smith & Wesson's existing .38 Special round. It used a different powder load, and ultimately the case was extended by 1/8th of an inch (0.125 in, 3.18 mm). The case extension was more a matter of safety than of necessity. Because the .38 Special and the early experimental .357 Magnum cartridges loaded by Keith were identical in physical attributes, it was possible to load an experimental .357 Magnum cartridge in a .38 Special revolver, with potentially disastrous results. Smith & Wesson's solution, of extending the case slightly, made it impossible to chamber the magnum-power round in a gun not designed for the additional pressure.[4]
The choice of bullet for the .357 Magnum cartridge varied during its development. During the development at Smith & Wesson, the original Keith bullet was modified slightly, to the form of the Sharpe bullet, which itself was based upon the Keith bullet, but which had 5/6 of the bearing surface of the Keith bullet, Keith bullets typically being made oversized and sized down. Winchester, however, upon experimenting further during the cartridge development, modified the Sharpe bullet shape slightly, while keeping the Sharpe contour of the bullet. The final choice of bullet was hence based upon the earlier Keith and Sharpe bullets, while additionally having slight differences from both.[11] [edit] Performance
This cartridge is regarded by many as an excellent self-defense round. It still enjoys a reputation of being the gold standard of stopping power among handgun cartridges and an "extremely reliable one shot stopper."[12] For big game, such as ungulates and bears, which have a substantially sturdier build than humans, it is inferior to the .500 Smith & Wesson .50 Action Express, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, .41 Magnum and other larger magnum rounds. Still, it is a fine small and medium game round and will kill deer very reliably at short range if the right loads (140 grain and heavier hollow-point bullet) are carefully used by a competent marksman.[13] Its stopping power on game is similar to the .45 Colt and has a flatter trajectory. It is a very versatile cartridge, and can be used with success for self-defense, plinking, hunting, or target shooting.[14]
Revolvers in .357 Magnum caliber have the significant advantage of also being able to fire .38 Special ammunition, with its lower cost, recoil, noise, and muzzle flash. This trait makes .357 revolvers ideal for novice shooters who are not yet used to firing full-strength .357 loads but don't want the expense of buying a second lower-powered gun to train with. However, a .38 Special should not generally be used with any .357 automatic handgun or rifle, such as the Magnum Research Desert Eagle.
It has also become popular as a "dual use" cartridge in short, light rifles like the American Old West lever-actions. In a rifle, the bullet will exit the barrel at about 1,800 feet per second (550 m/s)[15], making it far more versatile than the .30 Carbine or the .32-20 Winchester. In the 1930s, it was found to be very effective against steel ballistic vests, and metal-penetrating rounds were once popular in the United States among highway patrol and other police organizations. The .357 revolver has been largely replaced by modern, high-capacity semi-automatic pistols for police use, but is still very popular for backup gun use, and among outdoorsmen, security guards, and civilians for self-defense and hunting.
Some common performance parameters are shown in the table below for several .357 Magnum loads. Bullet weights from 125 to 158 grains are common. 125 grain JHP loads are popular for self-defense; whereas, heavier loads are usually used for hunting. Loads are available with energies from just over 400 (ft•lbf) to over 700 (ft•lbf), and penetration depths from 9 inches to over 27 inches are available for various applications and risk assessments. The Marshall and Sanow "one-shot stop" rating varies from 68% for the non-expanding semiwadcutter which produces a ballistic pressure wave of 372 psi to nearly 96% for the well-known Federal 125 grain JHP which produces a ballistic pressure wave of 1487 psi. The average incapacitation times (for a 170 lb male shot in the center of the chest) vary from 5.7 to 11.4 seconds. Manufacturer Load Mass (grains) Velocity (ft/s) Energy (ft•lbf) Expansion (inches) Penetration (inches) BPW[16] (psi) PC[17] (in3) TSC[17] (in3) OSS[17] AIT[16] (sec) American Quik-Shok JHP 125 1409 551 fragment 9.0 1169 2.7 47.5 88.6%[18] 6.4 Double Tap Gold Dot JHP 125 1600 711 0.69 12.75 1064 4.8 69.3 (est) 91.3%[18] 6.7 Federal Classic JHP 125 1450 584 0.65 12.0 1487 4.0 79.8 95.8% 5.7 Remington Golden Saber JHP 125 1220 413 0.60 13.0 607 3.7 30.4 81.7%[18] 8.9 Remington Semiwadcutter 158 1235 535 0.36 27.5 372 2.8 12.9 67.6% 11.4 Winchester Silvertip JHP 145 1290 536 0.65 14.3 716 4.7 33.7 84.5% 8.2
Key: Expansion – expanded bullet diameter (ballistic gelatin). Penetration – penetration depth (ballistic gelatin). BPW – ballistic pressure wave associated with remote wounding effects known as hydrostatic shock. PC – permanent cavity volume (ballistic gelatin, FBI method). TSC – temporary stretch cavity volume (ballistic gelatin). OSS – Marshall and Sanow “one-shot stop” rating. AIT – Average incapacitation time, time from hit in the center of the chest until incapacitation for 170 lb male as determined from ballistic pressure wave model. [edit] Comparison 1956 made Colt "357" Magnum .357 Magnum Colt Python revolver
The .357 Magnum was a direct competitor with the .38 Super, which was designed for semi-automatic pistols. Ballistic performance for the two rounds is very similar. However since the .357 is usually chambered in revolvers, it can be shot in barrels longer than one would normally find in automatics, giving it an increase in performance.
In terms of accuracy, the .357 Magnum has at least the same potential for precision shooting as the benchmark .38 Special wadcutter round—indeed, a good .357 Magnum revolver will happily shoot .38 Special wadcutter ammunition with good results. It is this accuracy and power, and the versatility of also being capable of using less-expensive, milder .38 Special ammunition, that makes a .357 Magnum revolver an excellent gun for many different disciplines, from 20 yard (18.28 m) precision shooting to long range falling-plate events. It is an excellent round for those considering handloading ammunition, as it is economical and consistently performs well.
As mentioned above, the .357 Magnum was developed from the earlier .38 Special. This was possible because the .38 Special was originally designed to use black powder, which requires two to five times as much powder by weight to produce the same velocity with the same bullet as does the much more efficient smokeless powder. Thus the .38 Special has a relatively large case. The 9 mm Para was introduced the same year (1902) but was originally designed for smokeless powder, and for higher pressures (~39,200 psi). It therefore produces considerably more energy than the .38, despite its case having less than 1/2 the powder capacity. Most 9 mm powder charges fill the case to the base of the bullet, and some are heavily compressed. Many .38 Special loads use the same powders, in similar charge weights, but because the case is so much larger, those charges only fill the case about half full. Light target loads with fast burning powders may only fill the case perhaps 1/8 full. Filling the case with slower-burning powders produces much more power, but also much more pressure; far too much pressure for older, smaller-frame revolvers chambered in .38 Special. It was to accommodate these high-pressure, high-power loads that the longer .357 Magnum, together with the stronger revolvers designed to handle it, were developed.
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Post by Mars on May 14, 2010 12:18:12 GMT 12.75
IMHO, doesn't matter as any of them would do well enough. Choose one you like and can get ammo for easily and on a regular basis.
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Post by shiloh on Jun 25, 2010 3:53:04 GMT 12.75
The .44 Mag has more oomph than these others in factory loads. You can handload the .45 Colt hotter than a factory-loaded .44 Mag if you want, but then you can hot-rod the .44 Mag to equal what you can do to the .45 Colt. But, at "close range" on deer, say inside 25 yds, all are about equal. Pushing out to 50 yds you need that .44 Mag. Pressed out at 100+ yds, really only a hot .45 Colt or .44 Mag is adequate on deer.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Jun 25, 2010 12:18:30 GMT 12.75
I'm going to save up for the .44mag. I love the .357 pistol cartridge and I know I'll get better range and velocity out of a rifle (20" brl vs 6" brl), but no matter who I talk to, the .44mag is their choice of these rounds.
Now, I just gotta "find" an extra six Benjamens laying around between now and November, lol.
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Post by Snake Eyes on Jun 26, 2010 0:11:05 GMT 12.75
Toby, Mars makes a good point about ammo.Some of the more popular calibers can at times be hard to come by......Like 9mm in handgun and .223 in rifle ammo. Your choice of the .44mag is a good choice IMHO. Ammo is still relatively available in most areas although at times at a premium price. My next choice would be the .44-40, but here again the ammo can be hard to come by at times. I think either round would work well on pigs also. Personally I would avoid the .357 completely as a rifle load....It was developed as a handgun load and that is where it belongs again IMHO A lady next door bought a .380 semi handgun and then waited almost a month to get ammo from the dealer she got the gun from.I contacted a few dealers I work with and all said .380 were on back order. I think if you buy a gun,and don't have ammo for it.....You may as well have a rock in your hand
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Post by Toby Benoit on Jun 27, 2010 6:17:40 GMT 12.75
"I think if you buy a gun,and don't have ammo for it.....You may as well have a rock in your hand" Snakeyes.
Reminds me of a line from John Wayne's movie TRUE GRIT.
Lawyer asks, "You were holding your gun on him?"
Rooster Cogburn, "Yes."
Lawyer, "And was the pistol cocked?"
Rooster Cogburn, "Yes."
Lawyer, "And was this pistol loaded?"
Rooster Cogburn, "Well a pistol that ain't loaded and cocked shore ain't gonna do ya any good!"
;D
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