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Post by shiloh on Nov 28, 2006 8:27:39 GMT 12.75
One of my pet peeves regarding Civil War re-enacting is the state of our uniforms. The last week i had this issue come up again as some Confederates againg seemed to believe they ought to look like they were recent escapees from Camp Chase rather than battle-ready infantrymen.
I hear people remark on tattered worn out uniforms with deep brown brass buckles and buttons and exclaim " wow! That really looks authentic!" Well, let's be honest here and say that it does if it is an original, which hopefully it is not, or does if it belonged to a soldier that was a slob and of a company with slobbish officers.
Uniforms were inspected reguarly, both North & South. The men would fall in for uniform and equipment inspections. Officers would walk down the lines and look the equipment over and issue warnings or punishments to men with tarnished brass buttons or buckles, and tell them to patch tears in the clothing if possible. When the officer saw clothing too badly worn out to be of use, they would have the man report the need for a new article to the quartermaster who would then issue (gasp) NEW clothing or equipment. How would new equipment look back then? Well - NEW! We have documents from soldiers back then such as diaries and letters that talk about the man having to perform extra duty as punishment for tarnished brass ensignia, buttons or buckles. Others complained of punishment for having a dirty musket.
We are portraying modern soldiers of the 1860s era, a very Victorian age North & South. We ought not be trying to portray antique soldiers because they were not antiques then. They were modern soldiers who took great pride in their uniforms and their weapons. Likewise, officers the same now as then looked for something to keep their men occupied in camp. The common joke about even our modern military is that if it moves, nail it down and if it doesn't move polish or paint it. This was a regular chore of the men back then as well. Polish the brass, paint the wood, label everything, patch tears and holes in clothing, and be as uniform in appearance as possible. And what sargeant worth a can of beans would allow his privates to sit idle in camp when he noticed a rusted musket in the stacks!? A sargeant is a sargeant and the surlier the better, especially back then when there was no such thing as an "ACLU". I often think a great camp-life impersonation would be to have a surly sargeant come into camp, notice a dirty musket and tear into the startled and relaxing troops and get them all to cleaning the guns. You'd have to let the men know to play along because odds are one would jest back which back then would have won him a flogging provided the sgt didn't bayonet him as an example.
The North practiced a better quality control overits equippage, of course, but the South tried as well. The very dark "Richmond gray" wool was only correct for the early war years and really only fairly common among the VA area troops. The lighter gray wool was common only in the early 1-2 years for the entire CS forces, but even then it is very probably that only a very few of the officers or garrison troops would have worn such fine uniforms. Wool was far too valuable to be wasted in 1 piece when it could be thinned with cotton and flax to make "jersey" wool (Slave cloth / home-spun) which was by far the most common clothing material for CS troops. This came out an off-white color so they would try to dye it gray or brown with various plant-based dyes. Most of the time it seems the color came out a tan color and with dirt and age it became darker giving the "butternut" tone so often referred to. Yet, I have heard that on the original "butternut" jackets that are in private collections or museums, there is a definite gray tone inside folds that shows at least initially there was an attempt to make it look gray. This just makes sense when you put common sense into action. The Confederates wanted to look uniform with everyone else in their company and regiment. They tried when they could. These guys werent' out to "stand out" at all. They had dreamed of being soldiers their whole lives, like boys of all eras. They had drawn pictures of soldiers in colorful uniforms, and had played with toy soldiers, dreaming of the day when they would win glory in a smart uniform. As adults in the real service, they would have wanted to be in that uniform whenver possible.
A late war impression of a CS soldier could very well incorporate torn and heavily patched clothing, but still I would imagine brass would be polished and the musket fairly clean. I do not personally think it is ever proper for a Union soldier to be in a run-down uniform unless he is portraying a far-west theatre or prison camp impression.
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Post by shiloh on Dec 7, 2006 8:56:55 GMT 12.75
Last night I was reading Marcus Woodcock's 1st-hand account of the war (A Southern Boy in Blue) where he said that it was easy to recognize the sloppy home-guard soldiers in Louisville, KY vs. the field service soldiers arriving just before the battle of Perryville. He said that the uniforms of the Louisville garrison troops were dingy and shabby while the field troops' unifomrs were "polished and neat". He also said that the weapon sof the garrison troops were dirty and rusted while the field troops' muskets were clean and polished. So, according to his account, if you want to look shabby and have a filthy rusted musket, you should be portraying some garrison troop.
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Dec 7, 2006 10:13:13 GMT 12.75
I know how you feel, Being a Major and having a light artillery unit,I like to see every thing look good, but as with a lot of units, I have one Sgt that wont clean his rifle or pistol, he thinks it makes it look more real to be dirty, I have tried to tell the Sgt that not only did they keep them clean and in good working order, they also used them to hunt game to eat when they where not shooting at each other,and his uniform has seen its better days also,BUT, I can say that the rest of my unit "LOOKS GREAT"{ Phil don't get that chest out there to far, some Yank will see it and shoot!} Don't get me wrong, my Sgt knows his job and does it well,and is good at it but he has his ways. You can only get a person to do so much.Thanks for letting me say my piece. Major Bruce Reynolds of Mosbys Raiders Light Artillery One of my pet peeves regarding Civil War re-enacting is the state of our uniforms. The last week i had this issue come up again as some Confederates againg seemed to believe they ought to look like they were recent escapees from Camp Chase rather than battle-ready infantrymen. I hear people remark on tattered worn out uniforms with deep brown brass buckles and buttons and exclaim " wow! That really looks authentic!" Well, let's be honest here and say that it does if it is an original, which hopefully it is not, or does if it belonged to a soldier that was a slob and of a company with slobbish officers. Uniforms were inspected reguarly, both North & South. The men would fall in for uniform and equipment inspections. Officers would walk down the lines and look the equipment over and issue warnings or punishments to men with tarnished brass buttons or buckles, and tell them to patch tears in the clothing if possible. When the officer saw clothing too badly worn out to be of use, they would have the man report the need for a new article to the quartermaster who would then issue (gasp) NEW clothing or equipment. How would new equipment look back then? Well - NEW! We have documents from soldiers back then such as diaries and letters that talk about the man having to perform extra duty as punishment for tarnished brass ensignia, buttons or buckles. Others complained of punishment for having a dirty musket. We are portraying modern soldiers of the 1860s era, a very Victorian age North & South. We ought not be trying to portray antique soldiers because they were not antiques then. They were modern soldiers who took great pride in their uniforms and their weapons. Likewise, officers the same now as then looked for something to keep their men occupied in camp. The common joke about even our modern military is that if it moves, nail it down and if it doesn't move polish or paint it. This was a regular chore of the men back then as well. Polish the brass, paint the wood, label everything, patch tears and holes in clothing, and be as uniform in appearance as possible. And what sargeant worth a can of beans would allow his privates to sit idle in camp when he noticed a rusted musket in the stacks!? A sargeant is a sargeant and the surlier the better, especially back then when there was no such thing as an "ACLU". I often think a great camp-life impersonation would be to have a surly sargeant come into camp, notice a dirty musket and tear into the startled and relaxing troops and get them all to cleaning the guns. You'd have to let the men know to play along because odds are one would jest back which back then would have won him a flogging provided the sgt didn't bayonet him as an example. The North practiced a better quality control overits equippage, of course, but the South tried as well. The very dark "Richmond gray" wool was only correct for the early war years and really only fairly common among the VA area troops. The lighter gray wool was common only in the early 1-2 years for the entire CS forces, but even then it is very probably that only a very few of the officers or garrison troops would have worn such fine uniforms. Wool was far too valuable to be wasted in 1 piece when it could be thinned with cotton and flax to make "jersey" wool (Slave cloth / home-spun) which was by far the most common clothing material for CS troops. This came out an off-white color so they would try to dye it gray or brown with various plant-based dyes. Most of the time it seems the color came out a tan color and with dirt and age it became darker giving the "butternut" tone so often referred to. Yet, I have heard that on the original "butternut" jackets that are in private collections or museums, there is a definite gray tone inside folds that shows at least initially there was an attempt to make it look gray. This just makes sense when you put common sense into action. The Confederates wanted to look uniform with everyone else in their company and regiment. They tried when they could. These guys werent' out to "stand out" at all. They had dreamed of being soldiers their whole lives, like boys of all eras. They had drawn pictures of soldiers in colorful uniforms, and had played with toy soldiers, dreaming of the day when they would win glory in a smart uniform. As adults in the real service, they would have wanted to be in that uniform whenver possible. A late war impression of a CS soldier could very well incorporate torn and heavily patched clothing, but still I would imagine brass would be polished and the musket fairly clean. I do not personally think it is ever proper for a Union soldier to be in a run-down uniform unless he is portraying a far-west theatre or prison camp impression.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Dec 7, 2006 11:35:07 GMT 12.75
Admittedly, I'm not the scholar as you two are, but I want to say my piece as well.
What man, soldier or otherwise, would allow his rifle to fall into disrepair when his life could very well be dependant upon it. As was already said, that rifle was used as a tool or gathering food as well as in defense of the man's life.
I wonder how many of them old rifles brought a turkey or two back to camp, but never sighted on another man?
It stands to reason that the weapons and equipment would be well oiled and cared for.
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Dec 7, 2006 12:08:46 GMT 12.75
n2eatn, you are probably right some of the rifles during the war were probably not aimed at another human being, but think how many were. The Major
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Post by Paws on Dec 7, 2006 15:30:45 GMT 12.75
Major that Sergeant is probably a good look alike for a raw boned, scrawny mountain man of the period. You are colrrect the weapons should be pristeen and personal hygiene of top priority. I was reading a story written by a CW rebel private talking about replacing the sugar in the bowl with sand he had gathered from the creek bank to use to scour his rifle. This little practical joke does provide some insight into the fact that the private was polishing his musket using sand as the abrasive. Another story tells of the men geting their hair cut and usually by one particular soldier who happened to do it better than anybody else. Skills like barbering, cooking, smithing, carpentry were valuable to the units and usually got the solder/craftsman relieved of the more mundane details/duties such as guard duty. A little known fact: While going through basic training I acutally supplemented my personal income by taking in laundry. On off duty days I washed, dried, and ironed uniforms, folded undies and padded my wallet. Even sewed on a few pair olf chevrons when the boys got their "skeeter wings".
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Post by shiloh on Dec 8, 2006 6:50:22 GMT 12.75
Sam Wakins in his memoir "Co. Aytch" wrote that while encamped at Shelbyville, TN after Stones River, the men scoured their muskets with wet rags and powder from crushed bricks. To go through that much trouble shows they, even Rebs were deadly serious about having cleaned guns.
My own 1st Sgt is a great guy (retired Master Chief) and has been instrumental in building our unit. He is now slowly coming around to the idea that the uniform should look good and his musket should not just pass safety inspection, but should look good as well. He's one that has striven to have an old looking outfit like your Sgt. But with me and Craig barry in the same unit he's starting to change.
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Post by Paws on Dec 8, 2006 7:07:44 GMT 12.75
I just picked up my revised Sack Coat. I had the cavalry yellow added to the sleeves, collar and inside of the lapels. It looks really sharp now. The members of Mosby's Raiders were known as "fancy Dans". Many had custom tailored uniforms, including the enlisted swine, because they had the booty to do such things. I understand that Colonel Jon Mosby had his uniform trimmed with artillary red even though he was a cavalry commander simply because he liked red better. Anyway I am ready for the ball now so better get them pantilets freshened up and starched. Major you might want to remind that miscreant Sergeant Major that there were such things as "blanket parties" even in the mid 1800s!
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Post by brittonfaith on Dec 8, 2006 14:07:09 GMT 12.75
Many had custom tailored uniforms, including the enlisted swine, because they had the booty to do such things. ................ Anyway I am ready for the ball now so better get them pantilets freshened up and starched. I'm glad they had those custom tailored uniforms because if the outcome of my dress is any indication of the wives seamstress abilities....well, let's just say, it's custom made for somebody's booty. Just not mine. ;D I, Mrs. O'Hellyasay (pronounced Oh-hell-ya-say), am gonna wear it anyhow. ;D ;D And good luck finding my pantilets! Had to hang them out to dry after I strained the troops soup through them!
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Dec 9, 2006 3:09:23 GMT 12.75
Dear Buck n Beans, I'm sure that you will look just fine in your dress,and as for finding your pantilets, A "TRUE" Southern Gentlemen,{as I am} would never try to find them without the pretty Lady's OKEY-DOKEY! But you need to watch out for that Kass Irons ;D, he WILL look.
Major Bruce Reynolds, ;D A TRUE SOUTHERN GENTLEMEN !
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Post by Santa on Dec 9, 2006 4:42:50 GMT 12.75
Now boys and girls is that really really nice?? Such speech and even thoughts might better be forgotten during Christmas when old Santa is writin' down names on the "naughty and nice" lists. Sooooo.... Santa is going to ignore this one hoping that my next visit finds all being really nice boys and girls. Does anyone know what they want for Christmas yet? Visit in my shop. I'll be in the office right up to Christmas Eve waiting for your wants, wishes and druthers.
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Dec 9, 2006 5:18:29 GMT 12.75
OK Santa, I will be good, and you asked what I want for Christmas, All I want is a half scale Napoleon cannon, think you can get it down my chimney? Major B Reynolds
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Post by brittonfaith on Dec 9, 2006 8:35:09 GMT 12.75
I'll be good too, Santa.
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Post by shiloh on Dec 9, 2006 9:13:53 GMT 12.75
OK Santa, I will be good, and you asked what I want for Christmas, All I want is a half scale Napoleon cannon, think you can get it down my chimney? Major B Reynolds I don't think getting it down will be an issue. Getting it up on the roof in the first place will be the issue, along with you figuring out how to get it angled out of the fireplace once it is down. ;D As long as ol' Santa is casting and turning artillery, Santa, I want a 10" Columbiad!
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Post by Paws on Dec 9, 2006 9:43:01 GMT 12.75
;D Oh My Gawd! Shiloh said Santa can't get it up! You can kiss that Columbiad goodbye! I been really really good Santa! I know, it is difficult to believe. I did not call Sue an insufferable bitch now; I merely asked her if she plans to continue to be one, so that was a question and not name calling.
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Post by Lt Colonel Bruce Reynolds on Dec 9, 2006 11:15:23 GMT 12.75
;D Oh My Gawd! Shiloh said Santa can't get it up! You can kiss that Columbiad goodbye! I been really really good Santa! I know, it is difficult to believe. I did not call Sue an insufferable bitch now; I merely asked her if she plans to continue to be one, so that was a question and not name calling. Phil, I agree,that was not name calling, so you should be OK, unless that wife of yours has a hot fire going when Santa comes to your house, then you might not get what you want. By the way Phil, what was her answer to your question? ;D The Major
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Post by Paws on Dec 9, 2006 11:46:54 GMT 12.75
She did not reply and did her very best to pretend that she did not hear me. No fire in the fireplace this year. Somebody wizzed on the hinges to the glass doors and they are frozen solid. Somebody else broke one of the glass doors and it is now in 200 and ten million pieces. Good thing Santa wears them red long johns cause that way the blood won't show so much when he scratches his ass raw in all that broken glass I ain't gonna clean up! I ain't gettin' out the WD-40 for the hinges either. And Santa seen what happened with the Subaru today too! She said the brakes were busted. I drove it a half hour yesterday and told her there was nothin' wrong. She took it to the shop today for the brakes. They couldn't find anything wrong. Boy was I surprised! And she is gonna hear about it until Christmas!
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Post by Toby Benoit on Dec 9, 2006 14:32:28 GMT 12.75
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Post by Mars on Dec 10, 2006 4:23:40 GMT 12.75
Wives are a blessing, some blessings stick around longer then others and some are more acceptable then others but blessings from God they still be.
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Post by wayne187 on Dec 10, 2006 5:07:38 GMT 12.75
Being a low level corporal I have not the knowledge or experience as some of you fine gentlemen.But as many who know me I always have something to say.Wether any pay attention I have no clue.I am in agreement that everything should be polished and in clean condition.I will not waste time and space repeating all the good reasoning.Lets just say my major showed me everything I know and follow orders well.Because not only is he my major but father in law and can make both soldier and civilian life a living hell if I don't behave. ;D As for Santa I think none of these men me being included have done nothing that you sir haven't done or thought of doing.So please send everyone anything they ask for. I would just appreciate the major request as I would reap benefits from that as well. Corporal Mud Dog
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