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Post by Bro. Freddie on Aug 19, 2008 12:18:04 GMT 12.75
A Remington 770 bolt action .243 has found a new owner! It is a youth model with a 5 shot clip and a 3X9 Bushnell scope. Not many 10 year olds can say they earned enough money to buy their own rifle.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Aug 19, 2008 14:56:01 GMT 12.75
Sweet! Looks like he gets to do more than drag Dad's deer this year; hope he gets to drag one of his own out too! I like that little caliber for whitetails! Plenty of gun without all the extra recoil. Congratulate him on the new member of the family for me!
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 25, 2008 2:00:33 GMT 12.75
I'm enjoying reading through the old posts even though I've got chores to do I've got a bit of supplies in the ole' place (three nights a week) but since I'm a newbie I'd really like to hear what you guys, and gals, would suggest to stock up on for survival hunting and homestead defense. Ammo isn't doing anything but getting more expensive and I wouldn't be surprised if big brother doesn't limit my access one of these days. I just invested in supplies but would be willing to drop a few more pennies. Any suggestions? BTW, (by the way), Paws is one observant fella! Yep, the ole' shotgun is indeed a Mossburg 500 AT. I decided to run a bit of a drill one day...grab the shotgun, aim, and shoot (while adhering to safety) but not taking time for placement deliberations, etc. I figured it was either programmed into my muscles or I needed more practice. Oh boy, should have seen the bruise near my armpit. I was wearing sleeveless dresses around that time and it was always kind of fun to tell folks what happened when they asked about it kj
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Post by Paws on Aug 25, 2008 9:05:52 GMT 12.75
For home defense that is just about the right weapon for your size. Marry it up with some double 00 buck shot and keep it stashed loaded cocked and ready to use. OO will kill clean or remove most of the legs of an intruder but your intent is to kill him, not wound or threaten and it'll tear up jack whereever it hits. Add your full open choke to your barrel for maximum dispersion and you are good to go. Practice a tad. The important thing is that you need to snug that stock up into your shoulder tight and square as you can on the ball. Any slack there and you'll suffer for it. You don't really need to aim just kind of point it at center mass or belt line and squeeze the trigger. Squeeze means "do not jerk" because that causes you to pull the barrel up or off center mass target. With ammunition changes you can use that articular weapon for most anything we hunt here in Ohio. Just takes a bit of practice. Next I would get a decent pistol complete with a CCW to make you legal to carry concealed. At least a 357 or 45 caliber. I prefer revolvers but semis usually carry larger feed mechanism and are faster to reload. Your primary should fit comfortably in a pancake holster in your ribs , lower back or possibly on your hip. Your back-up goes on the outside of your left lower calf on there in your boot. A snub nose hammerless 38 makes a good back up. After that, a good solid rifle. The most versatile caliber is probably the 30.06, Remington, Browning, and Marlin make good ones. This married with a good scope allows you to "reach out and touch someone." It keeps potential intruders far away and allows them to be killed before they become an intruder.
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 26, 2008 0:59:24 GMT 12.75
Thanks Paws for the input on the arsenal. I'm tempted to chat about some of the details but I too think it may be a better conversation for a face to face around the campfire. I've written down your recommendations in my calendar for future reference. I also prefer revolvers but when I visited the shop there was a 9 mm mini-firestorm on sale so I picked it up as a first step. I haven't had any problems with it jamming but one never knows when it might happen. Someone wanted to sell my son another type of 9mm. The guy let him take it to try it out so he brought it out here and we enjoyed some target shooting together. That gun jammed up almost every time. Bad news. Needless to say, he didn't buy it. The shotgun did a mighty fine job pokin' holes in our burn barrel that day ;D Could you explain what "add a full open choke" means? kj
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Post by Paws on Aug 26, 2008 1:19:28 GMT 12.75
A full choke is somewhat restricted at the barrels end that tends to project a tighter shot pattern. An "open" choke is about the largest choke available allowing for a wider pattern. Basically the choke sizes are (most open to most restricted) Open, modified, full, and super full. There are a couple other variations but those are the most widely available. The various chokes used by the manufacturers are inserted into the barrel to achieve the desired pattern size. Of course for the "best" pattern you could saw off the barrel but that limits the multi-tasking feature of the gun! If the barrel opening size is not marked on your gun try passing a dime through the end. A full choke will either barely allow it to pass or be tight enough that it will not pass. A modified or open choke will allow the dime to enter easily.
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 26, 2008 6:52:28 GMT 12.75
Hey hey...I tried to be creative with the colored fonts on my previous post but it wasn't very successful on the black background. Sorry.
Thanks for the primer on the chokes. Yep...that ole' dime could fit right inside the barrel...open choke.
Do folks buy inserts to reduce the amount of choke on their guns?
Yeah, one of my buddies tried to convince me to saw off the barrel to allow me to have greater maneuvering in restricted space...like my security hole. Course, I'd really be in the dog house if my friend came to visit and saw her grand daddy's gun sawed off!
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Post by Mars on Aug 26, 2008 9:49:02 GMT 12.75
When you bought the gun it should have come with a couple of different choke tubes and a wrench to change them unless you bought it used. There are many different choke tubes, 100's, for anything you would ever want to do with a shotgun.
First, research Ruby Ridge and see what can happen from sawed off shotguns. Second, it's not that easy to take a hacksaw to a gun barrel. You can do it but the effect would not be good.
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 27, 2008 4:01:36 GMT 12.75
Hi,
Thanks Mars!
Paws, I have no plans to saw off this shotgun.
I have learned a lot about the topic due to this thread however.
Constantine and I watched some of the you tube videos on Ruby Ridge and Waco last night.
I also read some other articles about Dennis Weaver, the shot guns, Ruby Ridge, Waco, the US vs. Miller Supreme Court Case and some other assorted things.
I remember being aware of these particular events in the 90s, didn't buy into the news stories and I've never forgotten about such things. But, I hadn't looked into it for quite some time.
Thank you Mars for spurring the review.
I love to read, research, learn and review history. Please let me know if anything else comes to mind that you think I should check out. Thanks.
Hope everyone is having a splendid day. kj
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Post by Mars on Aug 27, 2008 10:31:27 GMT 12.75
OK, for home defense use that full choke should be changed to improved cylinder. That will give a somewhat tight close range pattern but literaly cover a wall from across a living room. Then use #5 or #6 shot in a 2 3/4 inch shell. That will also reduce recoil but remains an effective stopper on a human at "in house" ranges.
Ruby Ridge was a great example of what our goverment is willing to do to enforce gun laws and squash any citizen that thinks they are actualy free. Weaver was wrong for bowing to a goverment informants pressure and sawing off the shotgun barrel but that in no way required a response that allowed his child to be machinedgunned down and his wife killed. The killing of the agent that machinegunned his son was later considered justified.
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Post by Paws on Aug 28, 2008 0:00:04 GMT 12.75
Pretty good set up there. You know Mars, I won't allow an armed peace officer out of his vehicle without a warrant and he leaves his weapon in the vehicle if he has a warrant. Else, I go Ruby Ridge on him. I do not remember what the requirement is for a shotgun but I recall there is a minimum length it must be from butt to bore. All of the hunting laws require a shotgun to be plugged to hold no more than three rounds here. One of the buttwad Game Wardens discovered that some of the boys who cut plugs cut them using the shell lengths as a guide and had used 3 and a half inch magnum shells. Guess how many 2 and 1/2 inch shells will fit a gun plugged using 3 1/2 inch mags as a guide. Given just a tad of slop that SOB was carrying a pocketfull of 2 and a half inch shells and would dump a gun and force four of them into it and site the hunter. I guess you got all kinds of folk in law enforcement just like everywhere else. Anywho, mamaka if you plan to do any hunting with that shotgun get yourself a manufactured plug from Mossburg or the gun store just to maybe save a few bucks in fines. It was out your way this was happening. As far as I know in your home a shotgun can be loaded to full capacity. Not really sure though. Need to check that out. Hey Mars, what have you got against "00" Buck shot? LOL
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Post by Mars on Aug 28, 2008 0:57:45 GMT 12.75
I don't have a thing against OO buck and in fact I have a case or two around here somewhere. However for less recoil the smaller shot will work just as well in a home defense mode. A shotgun barrel must be 18" or 18 1/2" but I'm not sure which.
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Post by Paws on Aug 28, 2008 1:10:05 GMT 12.75
I don't have a thing against OO buck and in fact I have a case or two around here somewhere. However for less recoil the smaller shot will work just as well in a home defense mode. A shotgun barrel must be 18" or 18 1/2" but I'm not sure which. I was thinking the same thing. Well stupid me! Look it up! The barrel length must be no less than 18 inches with an overall length of no less than twenty six inches! (I did!)
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 28, 2008 2:06:04 GMT 12.75
OK, for home defense use that full choke should be changed to improved cylinder. That will give a somewhat tight close range pattern but literaly cover a wall from across a living room. This mossburg didn't come with any chokes and I believe it is open (in contrast to my incorrect term "full open" the other day). I'd have to go round up some chokes to do as you recommend and it seems the shotgun will do a pretty good job, if needed, as is. Do you agree or should I put some effort into getting a full choke? Then use #5 or #6 shot in a 2 3/4 inch shell. That will also reduce recoil but remains an effective stopper on a human at "in house" ranges.Sorry to be such an idiot. I was told to get 00 shot but I really don't know the difference. Do #5 or #6 shot contain smaller pellets? What's the difference? Ruby Ridge was a great example of what our goverment is willing to do to enforce gun laws and squash any citizen that thinks they are actualy free. Yeah, I hear ya and me thinks guvment behavior is likely to get even more interesting as things get more intense related to pandemic, climate change, peak oil. Weaver was wrong for bowing to a goverment informants pressure and sawing off the shotgun barrel but that in no way required a response that allowed his child to be machinedgunned down and his wife killed. Yeah, it appears that the whole sawed off shotgun deal was just a manipulated excuse. I understand that wiki is a compilation of input from idiots like me, but at least someone is suppose to be reviewing for accuracy. Anyways, this is a comment off the following wiki site: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_RidgeIn October 1989, the ATF claims that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the barrels shortened beyond the legal limit set by the ATF. Weaver denied this, claiming agents purchased legal shotguns from Weaver and later shortened the barrels themselves. In June 1990, ATF agents attempted to have Weaver act as an informant for their investigation into the Aryan Nations organization. When Weaver refused, the government indicted him for the sale of illegal weapons.The killing of the agent that machinegunned his son was later considered justified. Yeah, and Weaver's charges were reduced, the other fellow was awarded money and the other kids were awarded a million dollars. Here's were I started with the youtube videos. If you get a chance to watch them, let me know if you think it portrays the situation fairly accurately. Ruby Ridge Massacre part 1 (There are 5 parts)
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Aug 28, 2008 7:47:29 GMT 12.75
I copied and saved the following quote but am surprised I didn't also include the URL. It was from what appeared to be a legitimate site, possibly from the US vs Miller case.
In the United States, it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a barrel length less than 18 in. or 46 cm and an overall length less than 26 inches) without a tax-stamped permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, which requires an extensive background check and a $200.00 fee for every transfer.
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Post by Mars on Sept 1, 2008 16:27:25 GMT 12.75
Shot comes in different sizes which means the pellets are different diameters. The smaller the number the larger the pellet size just like shotgun gauge. OO is bigger then #5 and #5 is bigger then #6 and the #7-#8 are almost dust. The smaller the pellet the more pellets you get in a shell. An ounce of OO is 12-13 pellets but an ounce of #6 is around 160 pellets. There are advantages and disadvantages for every shot size, example, OO does more damage per pellet and retains "knockdown" power for a longer distance but it has fewer pellets per shell leaving large holes in a pattern that gets bigger with distance. #5 shot doesn't have the knockdown power pellet for pellet but you are sending more of them out of the barrel with virtualy no major gaps in the pattern so instead of hitting a person once or twice severaly you are hitting them 20-30 times moderately and with the smaller shot it will not pass through a human or walls unless your at point blank range. A definite plus if someone is on the other side of the soon to be victim or behind a wall in another room in the direction of fire.
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Post by Mars on Sept 1, 2008 16:36:07 GMT 12.75
The gun shop called and informed me they where having trouble locating a second Marlin in 44 mag and it may be a month or more before they get one. I guess I wait.
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frodo
Fire Builder
Squeerel Season
Posts: 46
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Post by frodo on Oct 18, 2008 7:57:30 GMT 12.75
ah.........i can't say...its a 15 slot cabinet, it had to be modified. now i think it needs to be modified again.and not a 1 is registered and never will be!!! asking a man how many rifles he has, is like asking a woman, how old she is. ain't supposed to do that!!! i can say for home defence, my mossburg 12 g pump with a pistal grip. works wonders in the middle of the night. # 6 shot and i'll knock ya down....
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Post by Paws on Oct 18, 2008 8:27:04 GMT 12.75
Well I'm cleaning the SKS, 9mm carbine, all the 12s, and the 357 just to get ready for any possible post election reaction/backlash.
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frodo
Fire Builder
Squeerel Season
Posts: 46
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Post by frodo on Oct 22, 2008 7:00:38 GMT 12.75
PAWS why you want to bring up stuff like that,..my pressure starts getting up. i get all hot around tyhe ears back starts itchen. and my agent orange starts itchen WHOOPS I AM SORRY that doesn't exist... that fella scares the shi$$ out of me. i try to be a leval headed god fearing man. but that fellas BEST FRIEND done went and said he hates all white people, and that we are all devils. well sir, piss me off and that might become true. anyway... he said that...then O- BAM BAM distances hiself from him. and says that his views are his own and that he does not believe what the n preacher said. I don't believe that for for 1 damn minute. I do not have a college education, I am not a psychologiest or psycryiyrest. but i have been around the block, a couple of times LOL i have seen things, and i have heard things and hell i have done things that i would nevere tell my wife, my momma, or the preacher. and i know one damn thing BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGATHER. that is a true statement if there ever was one. that is just the way it is. and that my friend makes me afraid of that man. there is no telling what he has in that little p-nut looking head of his to do. we need a man like mcCain some bodt that will fight if need be did ya'll see the 2nd debate? when o-bam-bam was asked what he would do to the country on the other side of afghanistan. to get after bin lauden. if he runs to there country o-bam-bam says that5 he will sanction the doo doo out of them well now.....you have just told them your bottom line they can do anything they want, they knoiw the consaquenses from us.... you don't announce to them what your gonna do that is bad policy and pratice
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