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Post by turkey06 on Nov 12, 2006 12:16:10 GMT 12.75
hey guys, tell me what you think of this rifle, www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=8§ion=productsI think i might get it chambered in .308 or 30-06. Im havin a hard time deciding. Im gonna be hunting black bear and Whitetails up in NY state next year. I have never shot a center fire rifle before, and I have no clue what the recoil is going to be like, any suggestions??
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Post by turkey06 on Nov 12, 2006 14:36:36 GMT 12.75
forgot to ask you fellas, What is the differance between a short action and a long action, which one is better or are they both the same tks, lurkey the turkey
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Post by Mars on Nov 13, 2006 4:34:49 GMT 12.75
You gain a very slight ballistic advantage with the .308 but you should have more bullet options with the 30.06 at your local ammo dealer. Both will work equaly as good on any big game animal in North America. Recoil will be equal. I've shot both calibers out of different rifles and to me it's just a slight nudge that's nowhere near the thumping my shotguns deliver. Then again my 11 year old daughter fired my 1903, 30.06 and thought it broke her shoulder. Generaly speaking, the lighter the gun the harder it will kick.
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Post by Paws on Nov 13, 2006 4:48:05 GMT 12.75
Lurkey, what type of action are you planning to buy? Bolt, semi-auto, pump, what? The length of the action will affect your accuracy, recoil, and speed differently in each case. Sidebar for Mars: Mars with the 308 being equal to the 7.62 what would you think of using the Norinco SKS as a big game rifle? Would you think that the 7.62x39 round is too light in the tail or maybe too little knock down power? Lurkey, why are you focusing on the 308 and 30-06? Are you into military weapons?
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Post by Mars on Nov 13, 2006 5:17:18 GMT 12.75
His link doesn't work for some reason but I'm assuming he's thinking of the bolt action Mossberg ATR that's a bolt action.
I'm not sure but I think the long action and short action mean exactly that. One is longer in "stroke" to accomodate longer cartridges like the 30.06, ect..
The .270 would have less recoil and still be good for black bear and deer.
The 7.62x39 is a good deer cartridge and should work well on black bear with a proper bullet. The SKS has very little recoil compared to alot of other guns and out to 100-150 yards is quite accurate.
The 7.62x54 is ballisticaly "similar to the .308 maybe even better with the right bullet. In a good rifle it's easily a 200 yard round. Maybe more!?
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Post by Paws on Nov 13, 2006 5:57:05 GMT 12.75
Thanks Mars. Yes, if the rifle is a bolt action then the longer draw of the bolt means slower loading, more time off target, and greater target acquisition time. The very worst I think I ever fired was a Mauser 98 converted to 30-06. The bolt was a good four inches and the rifle had to be removed from my "left eyed" shoulder to jack in another round without putting my eye out! Must say though I love the 30-06. Lurkey don't worry about recoil cause just like using a shot gun, if you got it tight to your shoulder and properly aligned you'll never feel a thing; especially when your target is meat!
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Post by Paws on Nov 13, 2006 6:17:09 GMT 12.75
This it partner? Visit your gunshop and wear the clothes you plan to hunt in and pop that sucker into your shoulder and see how it fits. It needs to quickly with one single motion using your forearm hand as a fulcrum lever right exactly into place each and every time without adjusting for the length of the stock. Try it several times moving your hand up and down the forearm. If it won't fit right you'll need to decide on how you will alter the length.
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Post by turkey06 on Nov 13, 2006 8:33:49 GMT 12.75
yep paws, that be the rifle I was lookin at. i think my cartridge of choice is going to be the 30-06. as i said before i dont know anything about rifles.
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Post by Brikatw on Nov 13, 2006 9:30:29 GMT 12.75
Matt, I thinkyour doing good asking around about the rifle. It's always good to have several opinions to go by. Have you looked into Savage at all. It may save you a few bucks with out any loss of quality. I can't be happier with the one I got for Miss Kathy. Now hers is a 243 and is a light load for your purposes but they do chamber them into the 30-06 as well. The bolt action is a good choice, very reliable. Another thought is the NEF Handy Rifle. This is a single shot that can be changed into about any rifle/shotgun/muzzle loader you want. I have heard nothing but good reports about them. Though a little slower than a pump, a shooter who has practiced and is confident with one can fire/reload/ fire almost as quickly as with a bolt action. Just a couple ideas for you to toss around. Take a trip to your local shooting range or Rod and Gun and talk to the guys there. Even talk to the guys at the deer camp. They may let you try a round or 2 through the different calibers in camp to see how they feel to you. A rifle, regardless of the caliber is no good if you are not comfortable shooting it. Kind of like a bow that doesn't fit right. Too much recoil and though you may not be scared of it, you may go to flinching.
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Post by Paws on Nov 13, 2006 10:44:34 GMT 12.75
Brian is right pretty much across the board. For a rifle I personally prefer a single shot. That's cause rifles are made for long range shots. Long range shots generally give you plenty of set up and calm down time before you squeeze the trigger. With good set up time and a well planned shot one is generally all you need. As a general rule sigle shot rifles are normally more accurate than bolt actions or semis. I know very little about ballistics and choosing the right size rifle for particular game because most of my hunting is done here in Ohio and we do not hunt with rifle in Ohio. I do use my 22s, 9mm carbine, SKS, and 30-06 for lots of fun though! Lurkie, firing one rifle is prtty much like firing another. The approach is identical to how you learned to fire your 22. By the way, did you attend a Hunter Safety Course? If not, check around and get with an NRA instructor and get some help learning how to shoot. Do not feel dumb about it either. If you are doing anything wrong you will need an experienced shooter to watch you because you will never ever pick it up yourself and will never therefore ever be able to correct any problem or little quirk you may have developed. This is an absolute must. When I went into Basic Training I had found out that I had learned every wrong way to shoot that existed. It was hard to break the bad habits too. The worst were flinching and "pulling" the trigger.
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Post by Mars on Nov 13, 2006 17:08:12 GMT 12.75
Single shots do have a tendency to kick a little more then bolt actions but again, weight of the gun helps. Other words, a 8 pound single shot should have less felt recoil then a 5 pound bolt action. There are also recoil dampening devices if recoil is a concern. Single shots are accurate and a second shot can be had as quickly as any other gun action [glow=red,2,300]WITH PRACTICE![/glow]However if you will be using the gun alot then I'd go with a bolt action. The single shots do give you the advantage of changing barrels to different calibers allowing you to use it on more kinds of game and scenarios.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Nov 13, 2006 18:48:30 GMT 12.75
I'm not knocking the Mossberg, but The Sports Authority is advertising a Remington Model 710 bolt action in .270, 7mm, or the ever popular '06 with a Simmons 3x9x40 scope for $299.99. Something to think about Turk.
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Post by Two Tales on Nov 14, 2006 3:33:36 GMT 12.75
I for one would never ever suggest uying the M710 Remington in any caliber..they are not the quaity that Remington is noted for...although they have improved the workmanship on this rifle it has many basic design flaws...Young fellow brought one to the range Saturday morning and ended up with all types of problems with it...I told him he should have done some research prior to buying it but the "clerk" at the gun shop convinced him this was the rifle to buy...I told him he sould take it back and trade it in on a real gun.when ever you get metal shaved off the locking lugs it's time to reconsider your purchase..I for one do not like Savage rifles but if you do, then that's could very well be the way to go (although I think Life is to short to hunt with an ugly gun:D)
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Post by Paws on Nov 14, 2006 6:21:53 GMT 12.75
I for one would never ever suggest uying the M710 Remington in any caliber..they are not the quaity that Remington is noted for...although they have improved the workmanship on this rifle it has many basic design flaws...Young fellow brought one to the range Saturday morning and ended up with all types of problems with it...I told him he should have done some research prior to buying it but the "clerk" at the gun shop convinced him this was the rifle to buy...I told him he sould take it back and trade it in on a real gun.when ever you get metal shaved off the locking lugs it's time to reconsider your purchase..I for one do not like Savage rifles but if you do, then that's could very well be the way to go (although I think Life is to short to hunt with an ugly gun:D) I heard a real nasty rumor, but from a highly knowledgeable source, that Remington intentionally builds their actions so that the bolt slams into the back end of the chamber when ejecting to promote destruction and necessitate repair/replacement. I immediately sold my semi-auto 30-06.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Nov 14, 2006 7:37:08 GMT 12.75
Turk, forget what I said about the Model 710! I guess it's true that you get what you pay for!
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Post by turkey06 on Nov 14, 2006 11:02:38 GMT 12.75
Im also going to be getting a scope for this. I need to know how to read something like this 1/4" M.O.A. click adjustments for precise windage and elevation Powerful 42 mm objective lens Adjustable objective for parallax correction F.O.V. @ 100 yds. is 30.4' at 4X, 20.9' at 12X 1" diam. tube is 13 1/2" overall, weighs 17 1/2 ozs. anybody got a guess on what the heck this is tryin to tell me
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Post by Paws on Nov 14, 2006 12:24:46 GMT 12.75
Yep, but let me see if I can find some graphics first. It isn't that difficult but will be easier with some pictures I think.
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Post by Mars on Nov 14, 2006 12:49:03 GMT 12.75
One click of your scope adjustment screw moves the crosshairs a 1/4 inch at 100 yards. Not always true.
Your lens is 42mm in width.
The backend of the scope is adjustable for your eye relief. Most are.In short, you can focus the scope.
F.O.V. stands for "field of view". At 4 power(4x) your scope will cover a 30.4 foot view. In other words, 30.4 feet left to right and 30.4 feet top to bottom.
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Post by Paws on Nov 14, 2006 13:00:34 GMT 12.75
Smarty aleck! I still haven't found a good chart. So what does MOA mean in English wise guy and how many clicks do I adjust my scope to for a target at a thousand yards when I'm zeroed at a hundred? By the way, remember any of the math?
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Post by Two Tales on Nov 14, 2006 13:35:26 GMT 12.75
MOA = Minute of Angle
Based on a circle 200 yard diameter and breaking that circle into 360 degrees and each degree in to 60 minutes, then each minute will equal 1 minute of angle...(some folks refer to MOA as min of arc; it still means the same thing)...1 minute of angle is equal to 1 inch based on the circumfrence (21,600 inches) of that 200yd circle.... see the math is easy:D:D:D:D this is for windage...bullet ballists have to be considered when adjusting your scope for elevation...I have the actual formula stashed away some place in this puter but doubt that there is room on this thread to post it all:D:D:D
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