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Post by Paws on Nov 14, 2006 15:40:56 GMT 12.75
Yep, Minute of Angle. I could not for the life of me remember arc! I also get messed up doing windage trying to remember which way to adjust the screw or button. I have to stop and re-think which way we are moving the objective lens or the retical. . That's why I was wanting a chart. Surprised that I couldn't find one. I'll snoop around and see if Camp Perry has a site up yet with some of that stuff in their files. Now sir another question If I have a scope with a MOA of 1/4 inch per click and have zeroed at 100 yards how many clicks must I raise the retical to correct to zero for 200 yards? At the same revised distance how many clicks must I adjust for windage and in which direction should I turn the wheel? (This may be a trick question.) Seriously niow how do you check or test for windage at a distance of a hundred yards away from you? What are your clues?)
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Post by Paws on Nov 15, 2006 2:35:42 GMT 12.75
Hey, we don't need a chart! Matt, just think of this thing like a spoked wagon wheel laid out flat on the ground with you standing in the middle of the hub! Look how the spokes radiate away from you and how the distance between them gets greater the further away from you they are. Now imagine taking aim with dead on perfect iron sites at something on the rim of the wheel and notice that your tiny little movements that you make are magnified with mathematical precision and become more significant the further away from the hub the target happens to be. Just as the spokes radiate from the hub so does the movement of any projectile fired from a weapon. The further out it goes then the greater the distance between the degrees of the circle (horizontal arc) or MOA.
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Post by SgtBill on Nov 15, 2006 4:37:50 GMT 12.75
Phil, you are corn fusing me. 1/4" MOA or minuet of angle is computed to be 4 click's to the inch . To move the strike of a projectile 5 inches on a target 100 yards away it would take 20 click's to do it = 20 times 1/4"=5 inches.
On part 2 of the question it is unknown without knowing the bullet type, weight and velocity of the projectile.
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Post by Paws on Nov 15, 2006 9:25:09 GMT 12.75
Correct! Now what part was confusing? Was it the minuet? Nice dancing with you Bill! ;D Now about adjusting for windage given a known zero; ever seen a movie where the shooter picks up a pinch of dust and watches how fast it blows away and in which direction? Well that might provide information at the point where the shooter is standing but what about a hundred, two hundred, or a thousand yards out? How do you judge the influence of the wind on the projectile at the location of the target? What clues do you use?
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Post by SgtBill on Nov 16, 2006 3:40:24 GMT 12.75
Well if you are shooting to a known distance like at Camp Perry Ohio for the nationals and the range distance is known you would look at the range flag's and judge the wind velocity and direction. One must have a lot of practice at this to get it right or even close. When dealing with an unknown distance you are basically lost unless you can see tree's , grass etc. moving with the wind and you have a range finder and or are good at judging distances.
All of this is an art that most Hunter's do not have for long range. Even High Power Comp. Shooter's can be lacking unless the range (distance ) is known.
P.S. that pinch of dirt is called hold off. Again an art and a lot of practice.
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Post by Paws on Nov 16, 2006 3:50:35 GMT 12.75
Good job there Bill! I was hoping usins might give Matt the real skinny on what shooting really requires. I think windage (Matt that is the movement of the projectile from left to right or "horizontal movement" and the associated adjustment) is pretty well covered. Just one more note on it: remember the giant wagon wheel on the ground? With respect to how the projectile is affected by a constant known wind velocity along the entire course of the shot to be taken or the "range" where do you think the windage of the projectile will be affected the most, at the muzzle, halfway down range, or near the target? Explain your answer. Oh, Matt, this question is for you! Hit your library and check out Shooting Illustrated or American Rifleman, etc. if you need help with your answer. The rest of you guys please hold off your answers until Matt has a chance.
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Post by turkey06 on Nov 16, 2006 14:07:36 GMT 12.75
well paws, my guess would be that the projectile will be affected the most right before it hits the target because of all the wind that is pushing on it. if that isn't right then my next guess would be that it is most affected by the muzzle because you have to move the gun/scope to compensate for the windage from left to right. if that isn't right then just TELL ME THE ANSWER
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Post by Paws on Nov 16, 2006 14:22:39 GMT 12.75
Matt, either answer might be right! You did exactly what needed to be done and that was to think about it before you took the shot. That's what you have to do each and evry time you get ready to squeeze a trigger. The important thing is that you instinctively recognize that the muzzle velocity, wind speed at each and every point along the range, distance to the target, elevation of the target, type of projectile, and a whole bunch of other factors are going to affect each and every shot. The key to becoming a good shooter is to learn which factors can be controlled and how to minimize the variables before you fire a kill shot. The most important word in your vocabulary right now needs to be "consistency" followed by the word "practice." Have you got a target range that you can use a shooting bench or chair on?
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Post by turkey06 on Nov 17, 2006 14:01:00 GMT 12.75
We only got a shotgun range and a bow range but no rifle ranges at all, damn developoing is taking up all of the woods to the point were it is illigal to rifle hunt. I got a dumb question. its legall to use shotgun slugs, but not rifles in my state. I know the difference is that the velocity and the distance of a slug is less greater than a rifle right?. Plus we got so many trees here you cant make a 75 yard shot. so the question is, Why can u shotgun hunt with slugs, but not with rifles?
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Post by Paws on Nov 18, 2006 3:35:55 GMT 12.75
You just answered your own question. Rifles are "long distance" weapons generally for a hundred yards or greater distances. Shotguns with rifled barrels and sabots or rifled slugs are pretty acccurate for up to a hundred yards. And they are getting more accurate every year. A rifle has a much greater killing range and a poorly placed shot is much more dangerous than one from a shotgun. For that reason during squirrel season I will not shoot into a tree with my 22s because I know that a 22 will kill for up to a mile. Does your Dad do any rifle hunting out of state?
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Post by Mars on Nov 21, 2006 23:34:40 GMT 12.75
Shotguns used to be very limited in the ability to shoot a foster style slug any great distance let alone with any accuracy. However, with the advancement of sabots and rifled barrels, hunters are exceeding limits of just a few years ago. Like muzzleloaders, expect States to start controlling shotguns as they start to reach "rifle" status.
On another note;
Unsafe firearm handling and shooting occurs with every firearm and at all different ranges. A shotgun is not safer then a rifle or even a pistol in the hands of an idiot!
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Post by Paws on Nov 22, 2006 5:32:44 GMT 12.75
Very true. Not too awful many years ago a shotgun slug that hit anywhere in the area the size of an apple crate at a hundred yards was good stuff. Nowdays hitting within a circle the size of a pie tin is adequate. Kind of galds my nards a bit we being restricted to using shotguns with a rifle being so much more accurate but that's the way it is and for good reasons. That's one of the major reasons I prefer to use my 357 rather than the shotgun. Given fifty to sixty yards it is more consistently accurate, weighs less to carry, less cumbersome, has greater round capacity, and reloads a whole bunch quicker!
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Rtdcop
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 102
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Post by Rtdcop on Nov 27, 2006 11:32:35 GMT 12.75
Phil were going through that up here in NY. The Northern half the State was rifle, while the lower portion of the State was Shotgun. Just to make things interesting the State allowed Handguns in the southern portion, along with muzzle loaders. Well with the advent of the Encore in rifle calibers, now many portions of the state are allowing rifles. Tell ya what Phil if I was in a shotgun only area that allowed Muzzle loaders, I would be dragging my Omega out. That Omega is more accurate than any shotgun and hits just as hard as a 30-30. With a scope your good to 200 yards and guessing from mine you will be hitting a 6 inch bulleyese @ 200. What the Hey Phil, you only need one shot anyways.....
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Post by Paws on Nov 27, 2006 18:16:04 GMT 12.75
Very true. I considered using my cousins ML during gun season which opens tomorow.
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