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Post by Two Tales on Sept 19, 2005 17:50:03 GMT 12.75
We hold field dressing seminars in our Hunter Ed Classes, only not goats, but road killed deer that we have permission from the state to pick up...we have also had a couple of the club's hunters bring a couple in...we usually have Large classes by most folk's standards (upward of 50 students) so not everyone can get their hands in the mix but it gives them some visual and alfactory sensations to go by ;D ;D...I like the use of the locking utility knife for skinning hogs...thought that was a trade secret though ;D
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Post by OLKoot on Sept 20, 2005 4:54:45 GMT 12.75
I posted my method earlier, but I'll repeat it here...I once was watching Martha Stewarts show, and she had a Japanese Master chef on who did it a bit differently....its quick and does create a sharpe blade....He took a knife and on a stone at about 22-25 degrees he pulled the blade back across the stone 50 X's on one side, then he turned the blade for the opposite side and pulled it across the stone only 10 X's....he then proceeded to fillett some fish , then he thinly sliced some beef....I find the blade to be very sharpe with this method.....
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Post by Brikatw on Sept 20, 2005 5:32:27 GMT 12.75
The utility knife is best just used for skinning. Just don't let the blade any further out than nessacy to cut the skin. Usually the first notch. Then it only comes out about a quarter inch. To keep from cutting too deep with it that way, just lean the handle up or down and rest the handle against the skin. Since I skin from the back to the front, the gut gives me no problem because once you've started down the sides, you can just pull the hide down and off the gut side. It's easier if you slpit the hide on the outside of the legs also. I also hang from the head or neck when doing this. I work the hide all the way down to the bottom under the tail. Then I use a gut hook to open the cavity or do as Othmar says, and roll everything down to the skin cutting loose as I go. OH Bee sure to split the pelvic bone before you open the gut. When done right, the hide, the gut and even the vents will come out cleanly at the bottom or back of the animal.
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Post by othmar on Sept 20, 2005 12:00:17 GMT 12.75
The utility knife is best just used for skinning. Just don't let the blade any further out than nessacy to cut the skin. Usually the first notch. Then it only comes out about a quarter inch. To keep from cutting too deep with it that way, just lean the handle up or down and rest the handle against the skin. Since I skin from the back to the front, the gut gives me no problem because once you've started down the sides, you can just pull the hide down and off the gut side. It's easier if you slpit the hide on the outside of the legs also. I also hang from the head or neck when doing this. I work the hide all the way down to the bottom under the tail. Then I use a gut hook to open the cavity or do as Othmar says, and roll everything down to the skin cutting loose as I go. OH Bee sure to split the pelvic bone before you open the gut. When done right, the hide, the gut and even the vents will come out cleanly at the bottom or back of the animal. Allthough I do it very differently, I find you explaination very good and easy to do. It really does not matter how someone skins and guts a deer. Aslong there is more meat on the deer than the skin and no food matter on the meat. Once again, very good brikatw, I am impressed. Like they say there are more than one way to skin a cat (deer). Great Othmar
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Post by Brikatw on Sept 20, 2005 13:52:58 GMT 12.75
Thankyou Othmar, It means alot coming from you..
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Post by othmar on Sept 21, 2005 12:40:04 GMT 12.75
Thankyou Othmar, It means alot coming from you.. Thank you for saying so brikatw. I am of the opinion that the end result is more important than the way to get there. Some years back I watched a guy skinning a wild boar. He cut the skin into strips and then pulled them off. Watching him, I thought. "What the hell is he doing, maybe I ought to show him how it is done properly". But then I saw that he was quite efficient and fast in his way of skinning. Therefore, why should I tell him it is no good! Just because the book says so? Not me. if it works what you are doing more power to you. If it is not broken don't fix it. Don't look for problems where there aren't any. Thats me. Othmar
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Post by Brikatw on Sept 22, 2005 4:15:16 GMT 12.75
Sometimes I also cut the hide of a wild pig into strips. That's where I learned to use the utility knife. A normal knife would dull quickly. I use those cheap "break off" type knives that you can get at any home store. I cut the strips lengthwise along the spine then just past the loins and down the bacons until the last rib. It gives a good start to peeling them.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Sept 23, 2005 7:00:38 GMT 12.75
I killed a hog on a private ranch in south Florida a couple of years ago and the ranch foreman wanted to show me his quick method for skinning wild hogs.
He hung the thing up and using a pocket knife he started slicing the hide into stripa about three inches wide all over the hog, then proceeded to peel those strips away.
When he was done, there was so much hair and mud from the hide on the meat, that I gave it all away. I thanked him for showing me "his" way, but I'll stick to the old way of gettin' er done. It's cleaner.
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Post by othmar on Sept 23, 2005 11:38:48 GMT 12.75
I killed a hog on a private ranch in south Florida a couple of years ago and the ranch foreman wanted to show me his quick method for skinning wild hogs. He hung the thing up and using a pocket knife he started slicing the hide into stripa about three inches wide all over the hog, then proceeded to peel those strips away. When he was done, there was so much hair and mud from the hide on the meat, that I gave it all away. I thanked him for showing me "his" way, but I'll stick to the old way of gettin' er done. It's cleaner. Unfortunatly this can happen any which way you skin and field dress an animal. With the animal killed, being mostly on the dirt ground or hanging from a meat pole this is likely to happen, especially concidering that the animal just had a good battle for its live. Therefore it is very important to work clean. I always carry a few milk jugs of water in my truck for this purpose. If the animal exspired near a body of water I tie a rope around the legs and submerge it in the water. It is an old wifes tale that wild meat should not come in contact with water. Heck, I even fill the cavity with snow, if there is any, to clean and cool the animal down fast. Cleanliness is an absolute must but unfortunatly, even some guids I have known, seem not to bother much with it. They want to get the job done fast and then hold open the hand for a tip. Othmar
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Post by Brikatw on Sept 24, 2005 12:43:07 GMT 12.75
I agree, you MUST start clean and stay that way. Around here there is usually a creek or pond within a hundred yards of your kill. With hogs, I take them straight to the water and wash all the mud and stuff off I can before I even start. A short stick works well to break up the mud and the water will carry it off along with most of the loose hairs.
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K-Bob
Fire Builder
Posts: 27
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Post by K-Bob on Sept 29, 2005 14:13:19 GMT 12.75
Is anyone using convex edges on their knives? I first learned of convex edges about 2 years ago and am very happy with the results. Most of my knives have been converted to a convex edge. I find that the convex knives stay sharp longer, are easier to keep sharp and take no special sharpening tools. Years ago I read that the old timers had a secret method of knife sharpening that was lost in our modern world. Later I learned that until about 1870 all knife edges were created by hand. Starting in the 1870's knife manufacturers were able to use a new technology that allowed a machine to sharpen the knife. Most, but not all knives today come from the maker with a machine created V edge. A few custom makers are offering the Loveless or convex grind. Here is a link to instructions on creating and maintaining a convex edge: home.nycap.rr.com/sosak/convex.htm
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Post by Paws on Sept 30, 2005 13:54:50 GMT 12.75
Not me!! To tells the absolute truth those pictures on the site with the convex edge look pretty much exactly like the pictures that were used in scouts to show us how not to sharpen a knife.
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Post by othmar on Sept 30, 2005 15:47:03 GMT 12.75
Is anyone using convex edges on their knives? I first learned of convex edges about 2 years ago and am very happy with the results. Most of my knives have been converted to a convex edge. I find that the convex knives stay sharp longer, are easier to keep sharp and take no special sharpening tools. Years ago I read that the old timers had a secret method of knife sharpening that was lost in our modern world. Later I learned that until about 1870 all knife edges were created by hand. Starting in the 1870's knife manufacturers were able to use a new technology that allowed a machine to sharpen the knife. Most, but not all knives today come from the maker with a machine created V edge. A few custom makers are offering the Loveless or convex grind. Here is a link to instructions on creating and maintaining a convex edge: home.nycap.rr.com/sosak/convex.htmAll knives which are sharpend by hand are slightly convex. Even when the knife blade is steadied with the fingers as outlined in my "Knife Sharpening Guidlines" posted in this tread, there will still be a small amount of "rolling" thus creating a slight convex cutting edge. To achive an absolute streigt edge the knife would have to be held in place with a vise. Most knives are sharpend today by the manufacturers with a so called "chemical sharpener". The knife blade is goughly sharpend with the machine but the final edge is made with a chemical that eats away metal. As for concave being better than other edges. This is only true to a degree. If the concave angle is minmal it is good if it is extreme it will make cutting difficoult. Concave sharpening does not hold the edge longer than other sharpening forms. It is not the type of edge shape that makes a knife hold the edge it is the quality of the metal that holds an edge or not. The other factor that decides over the quality of an edge is what stone or other device is used and how the knife is run over such devices. Regards Othmar
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K-Bob
Fire Builder
Posts: 27
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Post by K-Bob on Oct 1, 2005 14:59:00 GMT 12.75
All knives which are sharpened by hand are slightly convex. Good point. Every so often I will come across an old bench stone that has a "saddle" worn in the middle from long use. A worn stone creates a fine convex edge. The ease of maintaining a convex edge has to be experienced to be believed. I was skeptical at first, but over time became a convert. The fact that I am able to touch up the edge on a field knife by a few strops on the leg of my blue jeans or Carharts is a big plus to me. If more serious field sharpening is needed, I carry a small square of cardboard rubbed with green cutlers finishing rouge and a small piece of 1500 grit wet dry sandpaper. My field sharpening kit is carried in a zip lock sandwich bag but is seldom used. At home I use a multi step process with several grades of wet dry paper up to 2000 grit with the paper mounted on cardboard over an old mouse pad. I then finish up with a strop. As to whether convex edges last longer than bevel edges, that is perhaps up to ones own interpretation. The convex edge will have more material behind the cutting edge making it more resistant to rollovers and deep chips. As a result convex edge blades go a very long time without needing re-profiling. In my home kitchen I am now using both convex edged and beveled edge knives and find that for home use, backed up by multiple sharpening tools, there is very little difference. I believe that my convexed Russell "Green River" butcher knife is a better all around slicer than its bevel edged twin brother. But, in camp cooking and field work, where a blade may be put to more all around use, I find that the convex edge is superior. Of course, a properly crafted high end steel blade should always out perform a blade made of lower quality steel or one that has not been properly crafted. I was recently told that all of the contestants in the knife cutting and chopping competitions were using convex edges. In an attempt to verify this, I spoke with a local custom knife builder. His answer was blunt and amusing, "If you are serious about cutting and money is on the line, you will use a convexed edge". As for me, I'm just an old camper, hunter and amateur cook. For sure I ain't an expert on nothing. But, I have an abiding distrust of most things modern. Convexed edges apparently worked well for thousands of years but never got as sharp as their flint and obsidian predecessors.
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Post by RogueWarrior1957 on Oct 1, 2005 15:40:48 GMT 12.75
Just an observation...since I'm a collector and fancier of medieval weapons, I've noticed that most of the cutlery of the days of yore was convex edged. I think all my swords are, as well as my filet knife and an old family butcher knife that is much older than I am. Interesting!
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Post by othmar on Oct 1, 2005 19:10:16 GMT 12.75
The reason many knives are convex edged is not so much to find in the fact that a convex edge is better than other edge shapes but that it is natural. This is especially true for old knives, axes, swords and so forth, way back when there where no machines to hold the blade firmly in place, there was only the dedicated hand of a craftsman. Having said that, in modern times we have found that different jobs can be made much easier with different edge shapes. For example my skinning knives have a steeper bevel on the left side than on the right side. The steeper side will push the blade away from the meat, preventing cutting in to the meat. Whereas the flatter side will run smootly along the skin. (Note: I am a left hander, a right hander bevels the right site steeper.)
Conversely, my fileting knives are beveld very flatt on either side. This shape permits me to cut hair thin slices of ham, for example without getting uneven or having to "feight" the knife.
The "Sticking Knife on the other hand, has on bothsides a streight edge, like a scalpel or broadhead. The reason for this is that research has shown that such an edge has high cutting power capable of slicing trough anything but bone.
As a side note, believe and being used to something have an big influence how, in this case a knife, is preferred. If I belive in something or being used to it then I trust it and this plays a big influence in everything we do. "Your way to do something is very good and works well for you but not for me". We all have experiences with this believing in and trusting a way we do things.
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Post by Paws on Oct 2, 2005 2:05:04 GMT 12.75
Here is a virtual knife skills test. It is a bit tricky with the mouse; but, you'll get the hang of it after a couple trys. Sent to me by United289. Click Here
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Post by Kirbyhill on Oct 2, 2005 11:18:07 GMT 12.75
Phil, you got me!! :PNow I have to go and change my drawers!! ;D :DBill
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Post by RogueWarrior1957 on Oct 2, 2005 11:27:27 GMT 12.75
<chuckle> Got me too...but I sent it to everyone on my email list that is not affiliated with NAHC or OCC. The best revenge is getting someone else I omitted sending it to a couple of folks with a bum ticker...my jumper cables won't reach that far to get 'em going again! ;D
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Post by Brikatw on Oct 2, 2005 13:23:20 GMT 12.75
Maybe I shouldn't go to this one....Hmmmmm. For my 2 cents worth on the knife edge I'm a firm believer in "to eac his own". Each individual will develope his personal angle and style of a knife edge as time goes by. All one can do is give them the basics and let them adjust to their own tastes. Like Othmar I have several different type of edges on different knives. It depends on the purpose of the knife.
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