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Post by Kirbyhill on Aug 28, 2005 1:21:48 GMT 12.75
Sharpening a knife has to be an art that I have never mastered! :'(Have all kinds of knives with different steel and still I screw up! :-[Even bought an electric sharpener and one that you put your knife in a vice like clamp at an angle and still NADA!!....My best buddy,Bob, who has since left us for the Happy Hunting Grounds, could sharpen aknife for me in no time at all and you could shave hair on your arms off with it. Haven't had a really sharp knife since 1980 when he passed on! Just keep buying more and more of them!...WHAT'S THE SECRET, OTHMAR??..........Bill
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Post by Kirbyhill on Aug 28, 2005 13:34:37 GMT 12.75
Othmar, thank-you for sending me your PM! Now I know what I have been doing wrong and will correct it. Enjoy your hunting in your beautiful country! BC and Alberta are two of my favorite places.........Bill
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Post by Paws on Sept 5, 2005 4:00:07 GMT 12.75
Hey you two!! Share!!! ;D I could sharpen a blade in no time when I was a kid; but, now it takes forever and I am never satisfied!!
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Post by Kirbyhill on Sept 5, 2005 14:28:52 GMT 12.75
Phil, I just emailed the info that Othmar was so kind to send me about knife sharpening. Wish I was more PC knowledgeable as I would post this with Othmars permission for other club members to enjoy..........Bill
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Post by othmar on Sept 13, 2005 1:02:25 GMT 12.75
I was not able to post anything in the other tread, otherwise I would have posted the knife sharpeing procedure. But now pawclaws has moved it here and I will post the procedure here.
The text below is a copy from my brand new "meat cutting tutorial" which hopefully will go online sometime this week with tons of pictures and graphics to follow easy step-by-step.
How to sharpen a knife properly:
Stone: Running a knife a couple of times in any direction across a stone is not what I call sharpening a knife for a quality cutting edge. True, it will make the knife sharp- for a while at least. Here is how you do it right. Make sure the stone is well lubricated with oil (oil stone) or well soaked (water stone). Ad oil/ water when the stone becomes dry. Set the knife at about a 20 to 25-degree angle on the stone. With one hand hold the knife handle and lay the fingertips of the other hand gently onto the knife blade. From the tip to the back push the knife blade forward and diagonally the entire length of the stone. Move like if you would try to shave a thin slice of the stone off, but do not put to much pressure on it and try to keep your hand stiff to prevent "hand rolling". Do not pull the knife back on the stone, lift it off and repeat the movement again- do this about ten times and then turn the knife over to the other side and repeat the same motion another ten times. Then check the knife for sharpness. If it still is dull repeat until the knife is sharp.
Sharpening steel: Re-sharpening a knife with the steel is basically the same as with the stone. Hold the Steel at an natural angle from your body away. Set the knife blade at the handle end at the top of the steel at about a 45-degree angle then without any pressure pull the knife gently over the steel toward your body to the tip of the knife blade. Do this once and then without moving the steel, move the knife to the underside of the steel and repeat the same movement. Then top again, then bottom again, repeat about 4 to 5 times. Do it slowly and as you gain confidence it will go quicker. Important is to keep the angle by each stroke and keep the movement consistent flowing, and NO pressure. You also can push the knife on the steel away from you instead of pulling it to you if this makes you feel safer. After each use of the steel wipe it with a cloth. Because the steel is magnetic, tiny fragments of knife steel will stick to it and ruin the knife edge when you pull it over the steel.
What about other knife sharpening devices? I have no opinion on them and do not know how good they are, because I never used any of them and stick instead with what I know and what has served my needs well. If something works well for you don't change it.
How to check the knife for sharpness? When I check my knives edge I pull them without applying any pressure over one of my fingernails. If the blade runs smooth then there are no burs on the edge. Next I shave some hair of my arm with it. If the hair does not come off the knife is blunt. If the hair falls off the knife is sharp. If the hair literally bounces off, the knife is super sharp and I am happy. But do not do it the way I do it. You take a piece of paper and cut off a small corner of it as you hold the paper up. If the paper just bends the knife is blunt, if it tears then there are burs on the edgeof the blade or the knife is not sharp enough, if it cuts smooth and effortless then it is super sharp.
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Post by Paws on Sept 13, 2005 1:12:59 GMT 12.75
Thank you Othmar! If you don't mind , I'd like to link your meat cutting tutorial to our discussion on meat in the OK Let's Start Cooking thread when you have it up and we can all consider it mandatory home work! ;D
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Post by othmar on Sept 13, 2005 1:31:51 GMT 12.75
Thank you Othmar! If you don't mind , I'd like to link your meat cutting tutorial to our discussion on meat in the OK Let's Start Cooking thread when you have it up and we can all consider it mandatory home work! ;D Hi pawclaws. I do not mind one bit if you put a link to my tutorial. I will give you a holler when it is on the web and working properly. It has taken a long time, much longer than I planed, my daily work was hectic, I had an accident (cut with a sharp knife right down to my bone instead of the beef bone and of course hunting season is on here in British Columbia. Also as you know my first language is Swiss-German and Englich is still a language I struggle a bit with. My wife has the job of being my proof reader and corrector. The words are mostly okay but my grammer is German and sucks in English a bit. Regards Othmar
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Post by Paws on Sept 13, 2005 1:35:18 GMT 12.75
Thank you Othmar! Don't worry about your English, it is fine! If you would rather use German, I can link to a translation site. ;D Hope your "booboo" has healed up nicely.
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Post by Kirbyhill on Sept 13, 2005 5:31:53 GMT 12.75
Good luck hunting in B.C., Othmar! Your grammer is just fine with me--keep your good words coming! :)Bill
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Post by Mars on Sept 13, 2005 9:05:29 GMT 12.75
It wasn't the first cut that caused othmar the problem. It was habit for him to finish deboning once he had the job going that hurt the worst. ;D You'll have to go to the survival threads now othmar. Othmar, the other white meat. ;D
Just kidding. Take care of yourself.
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Post by othmar on Sept 13, 2005 12:41:37 GMT 12.75
It wasn't the first cut that caused othmar the problem. It was habit for him to finish deboning once he had the job going that hurt the worst. ;D You'll have to go to the survival threads now othmar. Othmar, the other white meat. ;D Just kidding. Take care of yourself. Hey Mars, no offence taken in fact I find it funny. It did not hapen by the deboning. It happen on the kill floor when I cut off a head. The darn beef twitched and manouverd my hand in front of the knife. We call such accident, "the cattles last revenge". ;D
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Post by Toby Benoit on Sept 16, 2005 9:38:49 GMT 12.75
GREAT!!!!!!
This is what I've been looking for!!
I've never been shown how to properly sharpen a knife. Usually I give it a run back and forth over a wetstone and it'll do the job enough to finish whatever I'm working on, but I hog hunt a LOT and them jokers is tough on a skinning blade!
I own several good quality knives, bu I hav one that's really special and I hate it that I can't keep it sharp. I took it to a knifemaker across town a few times and man o man could that boy get an edge on it. After he'd touch it up, I could skin four or five hogs before I'd have to sharpen it again.
I'm gonna go get a couple of them right now and try your technique. I'll let you know how I do.
Hope the cut heals soon Othmar!
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Post by othmar on Sept 17, 2005 0:40:05 GMT 12.75
Thank you all for the compliments ;D and the well wishes. Getting cuts is one of my professional hazards , work fast, fingers close to knife edge is asking for it. This is the reason wht I always caution beginners to work slowly and keep their eyes on the knife blade. And for heavens sake never try to catch a falling knife. Iknow it is human habit to catch falling things, but by a knife take a step back and let it fall. Yes the cut has healed up nicely. I am lucky, as doctor once put it to me "You have a good healing flesh Othmar." Wild Hogs can be very though skinning their skin is like steel, specially around the chest area. So are big bulls, we often look at each other and go "Dam did I not just sharpen that knife and it is cutting worth sh**." In such cases make sure you have a good steel with you and recondition the edge of you knife often. And yes, as with all things quality pays for itself in the long run. Cheap knifes use cheep steel, which is soft and can't hold an edge regardless how well a knife sharpener you are.
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Post by Two Tales on Sept 17, 2005 5:29:20 GMT 12.75
I checked with a few sharpeners in and around the area here and other places...it'll pay ya to learn how... most of these guys and gals get upward of $10 per knife...just think 20-30 years ago I did it for $.50 a knife...and a whole bunch for nothing (family butchering time) almost always, I can tell within a stroke or two if the knife will hold an edge or if the fellow just ought to use it as a Christmas tree orniment.....
Othmar,
you mentioned in an earlier post that you use a 45 degree angle. I always try for slightly less at 22 to 33 degrees, any thoughts on that?
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Post by othmar on Sept 17, 2005 10:00:44 GMT 12.75
Othmar, you mentioned in an earlier post that you use a 45 degree angle. I always try for slightly less at 22 to 33 degrees, any thoughts on that? You are entirely right. My mistake, I used the angle for a skining knife. You see, we butchers have different angles cutting surfaces depending for what it is used. Sorry about this mistake. For common meat cutting, deboning and such, yes absolutly 20 to 25 degrees.
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Post by Two Tales on Sept 18, 2005 3:52:27 GMT 12.75
That's what I thought I also sharpen knives at different angles for different functions...the heavier the work the greater the angle..this gives backbone to the cutting edge and like wise for less angle for finer....but I'm sure as we progress with this thread you'll enlighten the folks with what angles are used for what type of knife for which Job they are doing..this is and is continue to be a good thread ;D
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Post by Brikatw on Sept 19, 2005 8:54:17 GMT 12.75
One of the tricks I found that helps with skinning hogs and other tough skinned critters is to use a utility knife like a carpenter uses to split the hide lengthwise. You can lock the blade on a utility knife to just cut the hide and not any deeper. I also, unless saving the hide for mounting or caping, split the hide along the backbone and peel it off the chest and legs last. That way there is little chance of spliting the gut by accident.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Sept 19, 2005 13:38:15 GMT 12.75
I've heard of guys using the carpenters knife for the first cuts, but I've never tried it. I know guys that love gut hooks on their knive for that also, but I have a hard time sharpening a straight blade, I won't even tackle trying to sharpen a gut hook.
I did however try Othmars method.
My hat's off to you old buddy! You taught this fat man a thing or two. I put my stone in a vice to hold it steady and then placed my fingers along the blade the way you said and after about five strokes on each side it was a pretty sharp blade, so I hit it three more licks per side and THE SON OF A BUCK SHAVED THE HAIR OFF OF MY ARM!!! ;D ;D ;D
I can honestly say I've only ever gotten a blade that sharp once or twice before in my life and that was just by accident.
I've since sharpened all of my knives including my kitchen knives.
Thanks!
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Post by othmar on Sept 19, 2005 17:17:55 GMT 12.75
I've heard of guys using the carpenters knife for the first cuts, but I've never tried it. I know guys that love gut hooks on their knive for that also, but I have a hard time sharpening a straight blade, I won't even tackle trying to sharpen a gut hook. I did however try Othmars method. My hat's off to you old buddy! You taught this fat man a thing or two. I put my stone in a vice to hold it steady and then placed my fingers along the blade the way you said and after about five strokes on each side it was a pretty sharp blade, so I hit it three more licks per side and THE SON OF A BUCK SHAVED THE HAIR OFF OF MY ARM!!! ;D ;D ;D I can honestly say I've only ever gotten a blade that sharp once or twice before in my life and that was just by accident. I've since sharpened all of my knives including my kitchen knives. Thanks! I am happy ;D for you that my guidline has worked for you. The fingers on the knife blade help to steady the blade and prevent rolling. Someone gave me once a hunting knife with a gut hook. To be truthful, it's useless and sharpening it is next to impossible. I use my Swiss Army Knife to gut deer and it is the best, for me. Make a small incision between the hindlegs. You can't cut into the guts there as it is protected by the Aitch Bone. Then insert two fingers- first and middle finger. Spead them apart and insert the knife with the cutting edge facing outward, between the fingers. Now push the knife blade with these fingers along the belly and presto. Lay the deer on its back and you wont cut anything that should not be cut. Regards Othmar
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Post by othmar on Sept 19, 2005 17:29:14 GMT 12.75
One of the tricks I found that helps with skinning hogs and other tough skinned critters is to use a utility knife like a carpenter uses to split the hide lengthwise. You can lock the blade on a utility knife to just cut the hide and not any deeper. I also, unless saving the hide for mounting or caping, split the hide along the backbone and peel it off the chest and legs last. That way there is little chance of spliting the gut by accident. A utility knife can work very well, but the skin and the fat layer below it are of different thickness. While you may cut just deep enough on the chest, back and neck. On the belly, inside of front and hind legs you may cut deep into the meat. Yes, it is a very good idea to cut the skin oppen on the back, but be careful you are not cutting into the priced loins (backstrap). Actually the skin is very loose on the meat and if you pull it a bit up as you cut you should not cut into the meat. Cutting and skinning deer is like everything else, practise, practise. In my hunter seminars I show the seminar participants with a goat (which has been killed the day before) how to field dress and skin. Once they have seen how it is done, they usualy understand and are quite confident to do it in the woods too. It is basically not a complicated undertaking but it can be frustrating for someone who has never seen it done right. Unfortunatly most hunters learn it wrong from someone else. My advice would be, if hunters can't go to a seminar then they should visit a local slaugtherhouse and watch how they do it. In a big meat plant that might not be possible but it sure is in a smaller one. Also a taxidermist will be very happy to show anybody how to field dress and skin. Regards Othmar
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