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Post by Toby Benoit on Oct 3, 2008 12:20:18 GMT 12.75
I agree with Carter, ya ain't gonner change my mind either, so pick anbother topic Kathy and we'll beat that sumbitch to death too. Oh, and I'll ask again; shoot from the gut. Give me your first instinct and gut feeling and let it go at that. Stop analyizing everything to death! Happy birthday to your 26yo baby today, but I wonder how that child came to be. Surely you were less analytical back then otherwise when coitus was suggested, you'd have been busy making a list of pros and cons and guidelines for performance; meawhile your husband would have had a shower and went to bed before your analysis was concluded as to whether or not you were in the mood. Open up Babe, your amongst friends. Tell us what you feel and stop thinking it to death.
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Post by Carter Northcutt on Oct 3, 2008 13:03:41 GMT 12.75
Dang Toby, don't sugarcoat it, just come on out and tell her what you think
Phil: ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Carter Northcutt on Oct 3, 2008 13:19:15 GMT 12.75
KJ, happy birthday to your number two son. My number two son will be 14 on the fourth.
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Post by Paws on Oct 3, 2008 22:20:03 GMT 12.75
Tell your boy Happy Birthday for me Carter. Kathy, sorry about your mishap. Nobody needs to be treated like that. Rape is a hateful crime born of anger, contempt, and a need to control. Speaks well of our society doesn't it. I say that because even the circumstance that spawns the rapist doesn't grant high marks to our level of decency. However, if it will help you heal we can arrange for you to rape one of our fellow members and "get even" in a sense. Seriously though , on behalf of our miserable society and as a member of the race of mobile penis owners please accept my sincerest condolences and apologies for your traumatic event. I know with absolute certainty that the perpetrator will get his just reward. When you remember him or the event pray for him. It will help. I know that you have already forgiven him because if you hadn't it would not be possible for you to care so much about helping the situation of the society that produced him and his misguided psyche.
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Post by Mars on Oct 3, 2008 22:35:05 GMT 12.75
Again, nope. Pregnancy does not mean a birth since God will terminate a pregnancy not just man. You cannot have a birth without a pregnancy. If you prevent a pregnancy you have not prevented a birth because no birth was going to occur to start with. Calling condoms a birth control is the same as going from "A" then "C" and forgetting that "B" has to be in there.
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Post by Mars on Oct 4, 2008 0:49:08 GMT 12.75
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Post by Jerry on Oct 4, 2008 2:52:18 GMT 12.75
I'll probably regret it, but I just wanted to make one input into this thread. The entire right to life/right to choice issue seems to boil down to this: at what point does life begin? Well, for those of us who believe the Bible, the majority of us believe that life begins at conception. I think that is the core issue. When does life begin? Well, according to Psalms 139, it begins at conception, but possibly even before conception. Here is a portion of that Psalm:
Psalm 139. To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.
1 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. 3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. 5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it. 7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Add to that Scripture, this one. Ephesians 1:3-4:
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
So, here is simply what I believe on this issue. Life begins probably even before but certainly no later than conception. For example, if our substance was known while even in an unperfect stage and are members were written in a book even before any one existed (Psa 139:15) and if believers were chosen IN CHRIST even before the foundation of the world, then, I think we can conclude that life begins a long time before birth occurs. If this is true, then the human being that is unborn certainly has as much right to life as anyone else!!
I realize that this subject has probably been beaten to death on here. However, I still think all things boil down to what we believe about the Bible. And, I think the Bible is very clear on this issue.
Just some thoughts. Please don't feel bad toward me because of my convictions.
God bless each one!
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Post by Jerry on Oct 4, 2008 13:38:38 GMT 12.75
Please forgive me, but I forgot one more very interesting passage. This is where Mary who was expecting The Lord Jesus Christ, visited Elisabeth, her cousin who was expecting John The Baptist. When Mary came in and saluted Elisabeth, the baby in Elisabeth's womb (John the Baptist) leaped for joy in the presence of The Lord (also in the womb). If a fetus can leap for joy in the womb, then life begins a long time before the actual birth. By the way, the one type of abortion that saddens and disgusts me the most is partial-birth abortion. If you do not know about this, just look it up sometime. Here is the passage where Mary visits Elisabeth:
Luke 1:39-47 Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; Luke 1:40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Luke 1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Something to think about ( a baby leaping for joy in the womb).
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Post by Carter Northcutt on Oct 4, 2008 13:53:10 GMT 12.75
This is still the United States of America so you go ahead and post what you want. You won't see me chastising you if I don't like your comments.
Anybody seen the movie, "Eagle Eye"? I just saw it and it was pretty good but I doubt if something like that could really happen.
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Post by Jerry on Oct 4, 2008 14:00:12 GMT 12.75
Did you see at at the movies or on TV? I haven't seen it yet.
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Post by Carter Northcutt on Oct 4, 2008 14:30:32 GMT 12.75
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Oct 5, 2008 1:01:41 GMT 12.75
Hi Folks!
Thanks for your kind words Paws.
Also thanks for the birthday wishes for my son. He's on a four day back country trip.
Happy Happy Birthday to Carter's son as well.
Also, thanks for the invite to the saloon; sounds like a great idea. I'll have to round up a password one of these days.
Tense? Uptight, anal, analytical. Who, me???
I worked about 14 hrs on the computer yesterday reviewing assessments for folks who are having a really hard time in life...I think my eyeballs are going to dry up and blow away.
Got a call out of the blue from a family with 6 kids whose trailer is falling apart and they don't have anywhere to live. The mom was in tears, winter's coming, no family, church, friends, resources. Someone even stole the copper line running from their gas tank to the trailer; just for a few bucks.
I have no idea how they got my number; did my best to come up with some ideas for them, referrels to agencies, etc. but there's not much I could do. Talked with a Habitat for Humanity guy and a homeless shelter and all they could say was, "yep, things are getting really rough."
Yeah, but what are we going to do about it; where's the leadership? Are we going to have to start setting up refugee camps around here?
Open up Babe, your amongst friends. Tell us what you feel and stop thinking it to death.
Ahhh, dang...do I have to???
I've worked so hard for so many years to look at things from all angles, to utilize holistic management decision making, etc. that I probably have gotten over-analytical. It just seems like we've created this mess on the planet by thinking we can just respond with pre-programmed gut reactions. But I'll work on getting more personal...thanks for the kind encouragement!
(But, you know...if more gals were a bit more analytical before they opened their legs we might not be having this discussion about abortion. Let's see, where's my check list...)
It's nice to know we don't have to regret or ask for forgiveness about things that we post. I welcome the posts from a biblical perspective and I honor the committments folks have for their chosen belief systems.
(Having carried a couple of babies and palpated hundreds...the jumping and kicking that takes place in the womb is certainly a reality. One could analyze the timing and particulars of such movements but what's the point?)
I, too, welcome everyone's contributions. I'm not interested in changing anyone's mind... just want to hear what folks have to say while feeling like I can learn to share my views in a safe environment, even with folks who may strongly disagree with me.
Thanks also for the statistical and movie references ...Eagle Eye; haven't seen it yet but will check it out one of these days.
It's a beautiful day in southeast Ohio and I'm looking forward to logging off the computer for a couple of days!
Best wishes to all! kj
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Post by Carter Northcutt on Oct 5, 2008 5:09:05 GMT 12.75
I actually liked the movie, "Righteous Kill" better. This movie is longer than 66 minutes so you may have to click on different versions until you find the right one.
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Oct 8, 2008 3:29:17 GMT 12.75
I actually liked the movie, "Righteous Kill" better. This movie is longer than 66 minutes so you may have to click on different versions until you find the right one. Constantine and I watched "Eagle Eye" last night; talk about an almost continual adrenalin rush! Reminds me old science fiction stuff; e.g. "1984", "2001 Space Odyssey", etc. Now, here we are, and scenarios like "Eagle Eye" don't seem very far-fetched at all. Computer technology/nano technology has advanced way beyond my comprehension and the amount of info that can be collected and tracked via cell phones, internet and satellite is mind-blowing. It's a pretty good lead in for Toby's statement: Yes, I do think that wire-tapping, in cases of national security, should not be made illegal.From my gut... I'm sorry but it's really not black and white. I agree that it should not be made illegal, HOWEVER the legal safeguards that are already in place need to be followed. A handful of dangerous guys in leadership positions should not be able to side-track those protocols just because they've successfully carried out a fear-mongering anti-terrorist campaign to program the American people to allow them to do anything they want, anytime they want. We need legal protocols in place to ensure accountability and to maximize our potential to safeguard the rights of the American people. In an ideal world, individuals in charge of determining what is a national security issue would have the best intentions with the people in mind, be trustworthy, honest and have integrity. I do not believe that is the case in this world. One example is the fact that anti-smoking groups, including health departments, are considered terrorist organizations. What is the motivation behind that? What if we kind folk on the Ohio Camp Cooks forums were deemed to be terrorists because of our varied discussions and our emphasis on preparedness and survival? Is it okay for my phone to be tapped just because "someone" thinks I'm threatening national security by encouraging people to save money, discouraging debt, discouraging living beyond one's means while going along with all the consumeristic programming? Also, the whole set-up in Eagle Eye was geared toward wire tapping/national security and if you watch the movie you'll see how that turned out. Could it happen? Why not? All is fair in love and war . If there is an enemy camp threatening to attack me, if the perpetrators have infiltrated my camp, if I am on high alert and responsible for the safety of everyone in my camp, if everyone and anyone could be a threat...is it justified for me to wiretap everyone? Again, in an ideal world if my intentions are pure and just, if I've followed protocals...yes, it is justifiable for me to wire tap individuals to ensure public/national security. Such a possible avenue should not be made illegal IF there are safeguards in place. If I have the power to wiretap folks and my intentions are not pure and just...I might just wiretap folks to get a leg up on business, political or other dealings. Corporate motives for control, power and profit appear to be the drivers behind much of National Security these days. Information technology is powerful, there is a whole field of research around the topic of artificial intelligence and humans often don't think about all the possible unintended consequences of their decisions before taking action. Anyways, I'm also going to be watching "Rightous Kill" as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the recommendations. "Eagle Eye" was a lot of fun, action packed and worth the time.
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Oct 8, 2008 3:40:46 GMT 12.75
Also, even though I know what some of you think about public television... PBS Masterpiece Contemporary is now running a series called "The Last Enemy". It also runs along the same lines as "Eagle Eye". Constantine and I watched the first episode on Sunday night and I think it worth the watch as well. It can also be viewed on-line at: www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/lastenemy/watch.html
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Post by Mars on Oct 8, 2008 12:39:20 GMT 12.75
I would consider it a compliment if the goverment thought my little mundane life was worth listening in on. Of course I've been under the goverments microscope before and it is fun to mess with their little paranoid minds. Like the time they "searched" our home under the guise of a health and welfare check and "found"(because I left it out in the open for them)a list of the addresses of the private residences of the Judge, lawyers, bankers and guardians and a map of the local power substations. Thinking they know something is a far shot from actualy knowing and even further from being able to do anything about it.
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Post by Toby Benoit on Oct 8, 2008 19:31:27 GMT 12.75
"It's a pretty good lead in for Toby's statement:
Yes, I do think that wire-tapping, in cases of national security, should not be made illegal.
From my gut...
I'm sorry but it's really not black and white.
I agree that it should not be made illegal, HOWEVER the legal safeguards that are already in place need to be followed.
A handful of dangerous guys in leadership positions should not be able to side-track those protocols just because they've successfully carried out a fear-mongering anti-terrorist campaign to program the American people to allow them to do anything they want, anytime they want.
We need legal protocols in place to ensure accountability and to maximize our potential to safeguard the rights of the American people.
In an ideal world, individuals in charge of determining what is a national security issue would have the best intentions with the people in mind, be trustworthy, honest and have integrity.
I do not believe that is the case in this world.
One example is the fact that anti-smoking groups, including health departments, are considered terrorist organizations. What is the motivation behind that?
What if we kind folk on the Ohio Camp Cooks forums were deemed to be terrorists because of our varied discussions and our emphasis on preparedness and survival?
Is it okay for my phone to be tapped just because "someone" thinks I'm threatening national security by encouraging people to save money, discouraging debt, discouraging living beyond one's means while going along with all the consumeristic programming?
Also, the whole set-up in Eagle Eye was geared toward wire tapping/national security and if you watch the movie you'll see how that turned out. Could it happen? Why not?
All is fair in love and war .
If there is an enemy camp threatening to attack me, if the perpetrators have infiltrated my camp, if I am on high alert and responsible for the safety of everyone in my camp, if everyone and anyone could be a threat...is it justified for me to wiretap everyone?
Again, in an ideal world if my intentions are pure and just, if I've followed protocals...yes, it is justifiable for me to wire tap individuals to ensure public/national security. Such a possible avenue should not be made illegal IF there are safeguards in place.
If I have the power to wiretap folks and my intentions are not pure and just...I might just wiretap folks to get a leg up on business, political or other dealings.
Corporate motives for control, power and profit appear to be the drivers behind much of National Security these days.
Information technology is powerful, there is a whole field of research around the topic of artificial intelligence and humans often don't think about all the possible unintended consequences of their decisions before taking action."
There she goes again! Kathy, your first couple of sentences already answered what I needed to know. "From my gut... I agree that it should not be made illegal, HOWEVER the legal safeguards that are already in place need to be followed."
Coulda saved yourself a lot of typing....
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Post by Paws on Oct 8, 2008 22:21:10 GMT 12.75
Oh you naive children; tsk, tsk, tsk. Don't you know that those folk in power and/or with the resources to "lease power" will do as they damn well please laws be damned?
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kj
Pan Wrangler
Posts: 140
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Post by kj on Oct 8, 2008 23:51:56 GMT 12.75
Paws: Oh you naive children; tsk, tsk, tsk. " Coulda saved yourself a lot of typing.... Thanks for letting me know where you stand. We watched "Rightous Kill" last night. Good movie for a variety of reasons, thanks for the referrel.
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Post by Snake Eyes on Oct 9, 2008 0:01:52 GMT 12.75
WOW, So serious for this time of the morning Think I'll go look for a recipe or joke somewhere. snake-eyes
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